HIV cure might have HSV applications

[gutted9999]

Doctors have cured HIV using stem cells. Might have similar applications for other viruses.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-12/german-doctors-think-theyve-accidentally-cured-patients-hiv-stem-cell-transplant

[jackson31]

that sounds pretty cool

[helpiamconfused2]

CNN reported in Germany that a man was with cancer and HIV received a radiation and a bone marrow transplant. 3 years later he is free of HIV...

[trigger]

is that serious?? omg!! when the hell are they gonna invent the cure soon!! omg omg omg!!!

[svo]

is that serious?? omg!! when the hell are they gonna invent the cure soon!! omg omg omg!!!

sigh *facepalm*

did you even read the article...I'd rather live with herpes than go through what the guy in germany went through...

first, it requires bone marrow transplants. that entails them cutting you open, splitting your femurs open, gouging them out and inserting donor marrow in them. I dont even want to know what kind/how long he was on pain meds.

they ONLY did this after they completely destroyed his current immune system...TWICE with huge doses of chemotherapy. that in itself makes me cringe.

the donor marrow as reduced to stem cells before transplanting AND it has a RARE genetic trait that is resistant to HIV infection. He pretty much got all of the goods. yeah, they probably kept some for future samples, etc but we dont have the technology right now to grow them up as-is into viable transplant media for the masses.

AND, they were only willing to do it for him because it was his only chance of beating leukemia which requires a bone marrow transplant.

they also said eventually he will likely relapse....and be on donor rejection meds for life as well.

I'd rather deal with a 1-2week itch every now and then versus that lol.

only thing this proved was that HIV acts like a normal virus and if you get rid of all the host cells that it can use, you get rid of it (in this case, his infected t-cell producing bone marrow, and chemo-blasted immune cells).

[Herpes Awareness]

is that serious?? omg!! when the hell are they gonna invent the cure soon!! omg omg omg!!!

that's the spirit of calm scientific enquiry and reason we've grown used to lately on HC.com! ; )

you forgot to run around to every thread posting it and derailing the on topic content. also, don't forget to reinvent the wheel and ask about petitions while ignoring the petition threads and hassling drug companies with thousands of identical letters while they're trying to work rather than targeting Congress and getting some stimulus money allocated. and keep posting notes saying 'I guess there won't be a new drug out for at least another ten years, maybe a hundred' while candidates are going through Phase II trials.

[Herpes Awareness]

first, it requires bone marrow transplants. that entails them cutting you open, splitting your femurs open, gouging them out and inserting donor marrow in them. I dont even want to know what kind/how long he was on pain meds.

they ONLY did this after they completely destroyed his current immune system...TWICE with huge doses of chemotherapy. that in itself makes me cringe.

the donor marrow as reduced to stem cells before transplanting AND it has a RARE genetic trait that is resistant to HIV infection. He pretty much got all of the goods. yeah, they probably kept some for future samples, etc but we dont have the technology right now to grow them up as-is into viable transplant media for the masses.

AND, they were only willing to do it for him because it was his only chance of beating leukemia which requires a bone marrow transplant.

they also said eventually he will likely relapse....and be on donor rejection meds for life as well.

I'd rather deal with a 1-2week itch every now and then versus that lol.

only thing this proved was that HIV acts like a normal virus and if you get rid of all the host cells that it can use, you get rid of it (in this case, his infected t-cell producing bone marrow, and chemo-blasted immune cells).

yeah, this account seems absolutely right -- nuking all your immune cells eradicates HIV, but I guess if even a tiny handful of infected cells survived, there's a chance it will slowly come back -- with the exception of using the HIV-resistant T-cells from somebody else -- which will require immune suppressing meds forever I guess.

Quite a bizarre combination of events where it worked effectively, was the best possible treatment for the person under the circumstances, and yet would not be suggested as a standard treatment for most other people with HIV. Maybe something will come of the stem cell research one day, though.

It also wouldn't work for HSV -- in fact the HSV infection would have a field day while your immune system was obliterated by chemo, as the nerve cells wouldn't be affected. In fact, HIV was discovered primarily because people were reporting non-stop outbreaks of HSV that weren't being suppressed!

[coldwar]

Wow for a minute I was dreaming of my life back

[schmack]

This is a pretty tremendous discovery. The fact that they can't apply this exact treatment regiment to wipe out all hiv tomorrow doesn't make the discovery any less incredible or potentially important. I believe I read somewhere that just like with HIV, some hosts are immune to getting HSV. Anybody know?

[Sweet7]

Yes. Check this out. I got it from Antigenics's site:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=20164419[uid]

Btw, I was into stem cell research before I contracted HSV. Some day, they willl be able to take some of your own bone marrow stem cells, make more in a lab, then put them right in your veins. Those cells will go to work rejuvenating other types of cells. There is proof that heart tissue can be rejuvenated this way. But, this type of therapy is a long way off. It would be better to receive our own stem cells than a transplant to replace infected neurons. This way we don’t have to take anti-rejection medication. We also wont have to do the chemo with this procedure as well. It’s just a matter of scientist figuring out how to train a primitive stem cell found in our bone marrow. UofL is working on it but mainly for heart and spinal cord rejuvination.

[schmack]

Yes. Check this out. I got it from Antigenics's site:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=20164419[uid]

Thanks, that's the study I was looking for. This news is beyond amazing. Can't understand the level of pessimism in this thread. Assuming this is all legit, they just proved curing hiv is possible for the first time. Can you imagine the amount of funding that's going to be pumped into hiv cure research now? This changes everything.

[Sweet7]

Yeah, this is very exciting news not only for HIV research but for stem cell research as well. The thing is, they will want to figure out what I was talking about. To develop a simple treatment of using a needle to draw out some bone marrow, manipulate, then multiply a specific stem cell (I could tell you which one but I got to get to bed), then just put it back in the blood stream. This could ultimately work on HSV and many other viruses that go latent. I can understand the pessimism if you don't know much about stem cells and upcoming therapies. I wouldn't want to go through chemo and all that. However, the initial reaction is due to limited thinking. For those who are pessimistic about this, please don't be narrow minded about this. Just do a little stem cell research and you will see what I mean. Schmack has a very valid point. HIV has been cured for the first time. Wow.

[SuperManFace]

I actually predicted this is how to cure HIV before I even saw the news a while back. I came up with this theory from reading these two articles: http://discovermagazine.com/2009/mar/09-they-dont-make-homo-sapiens-like-they-used-to/article_view?b_start:int=2&-C= (the part about a "genetic mutation responsible for resistance to HIV)

and http://discovermagazine.com/2009/sep/02-second-coming-of-gene-therapy/article_view?b_start:int=0&-C=

This cure you posted wasn't exactly an accident as they say, because the doctor actively tracked down a person with this HIV resistance to apply this very solid hypothesis. He said this was a perfect opportunity for him to try out his hypothesis. I think I actually posted something on this site talking about this.

[SuperManFace]

Just read the second link I posted it tells you how it works. They take out some stem cells out of your bone marrow, and expose the stem cells to a mouse retrovirus which had its genetic information removed and in place of its genetic information they insert healthy genes or whatever genes they want to give you, into the virus. So the virus infects cells with this gene you gave it. It works on your t-cells because your bone marrow is what produces your t-cells. Your are basically providing an organ (bone marrow) with a different version of the same gene (which fits into the same spot on the dna), which has instructions for how to make t-cells, this version giving instructions on how to build t-cells that are slightly different. The technology is here and it is ready to be used against HSV and other diseases only thing is bureaucracy likes being god and is holding everything back.

[SuperManFace]

HIV has been cured for the first time. Wow.

Cured for the first time using this concept. However HIV has been cured before and is largely harmless. The AIDS epidemic in Africa is something else. Watch Nobel Prize laureate Luc Montagnier's interviews on HIV. HIV is everywhere.

[SuperManFace]

Btw, I was into stem cell research before I contracted HSV.

You were studying this stuff? Why would catching HSV make you stop? I would imagine it would be quite the opposite, and make you more passionate in stem cell research.

[SuperManFace]

I find it particularly amusing when they say in the article:

And while the story by no means indicates that a cure for HIV has been discovered,

I LOL so hard when I read that.

[SuperManFace]

The first article link I posted talks about this genetic mutation responsible for HIV resistance. Some have partial resistance, and some have full resistance. This is where they got the bone marrow from, from an HIV resistant person that was tracked down.

[Sweet7]

Hey SuperManFace, I have wanted to get back to the latest in stem cell research, but there is only so much time in a day. I have to work and sleep too. There is so much info out there about HSV with different theories. I'm just trying to figure it out for myself. I had planned on working my way back because I have had thought there might be promise of stem cells being a possible cure. Thanks for all that you had posted, and I think I did see a thread where you had posted some stem cell reseach in the past. So, keep up the good work, ok?

[SuperManFace]

Read that article I posted called "the second coming of gene therapy" it will pretty much bring you up to date. I think its the second link.

[gutted9999]

If t cells found to be hsv resistant were cloned using stem cells and introduced to someone wouldn't that give resistance to that person? Not a therapeutic but preventative vaccine.

[SuperManFace]

If t cells found to be hsv resistant were cloned using stem cells and introduced to someone wouldn't that give resistance to that person? Not a therapeutic but preventative vaccine.

No because those T-cells would attack all of recipient's tissue. Since they are from a different person with different DNA, the T-cells would see all cells as foreign. Its not T-cell resistant cells that you need to find, because HSV doesn't infect the T-cells. You need to find T-cells that can recognize latently infected HSV nerve cells and destroy them efficiently. Then you would isolate the gene responsible for that ability (out of the person's entire DNA) and insert that gene into YOUR stem cell by using the mouse retrovirus for a vector. Then insert the stem cell-virus hybrid into your blood stream and it would find its way back to the bone marrow to start producing those T-cells.

All in theory of course since I don't know if there even are people with this super T-cell ability. But pretty much anything is possible and the knowledge is out there so you better believe someone knows how to cure it. For example an alligator's T-cells can kill all viruses and would probably be able to cure HSV if only it wouldn't kill our own healthy cells as well.

[gutted9999]

I see what you are saying about the latently infected cells but if you check my post you can see I was talking specifically about a preventative vaccine for people who are not infected, not a therapeutic vaccine for those who are.

The point I was making is that hiv was cured by the patient having all his white blood cells destroyed by chemo and replaced with hiv resistant versions made from stem cells.

I'm not suggesting its a good idea (sounds like a pretty horrific procedure) but if a non infected patient underwent something similar except with hsv resistant cells made from stem cells then this would prevent subsequent infections and act something like a vaccine, the only difference being the resistance would be borrowed via stem cells via someone else rather than being generated by the individuals own immune system.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but do you see what I mean?

[SuperManFace]

I see what you mean. I understood that you were talking about a preventative vaccine. Like I said, the way you described it would not work. If you clone someone's T-cells, they will be just that-clones. Meaning they are someone else's T-cells in your body. These T-cells are foreign to your body, which will lead to a hardware conflict because the DNA doesn't match. You want T-cells that are YOURS not someone else's, but have that special ability you found in someone else's T-cells. This would be the only way. You would have to probably take immuno-suppressive drugs to counteract the hardware conflict. That wouldn't be good. Even if there wasn't a hardware conflict, those T-cells won't last forever. But if you have a stem cell virus hybrid in your bone marrow, it will forever pump out those T-cells. Gene and cell therapy is more complex than simply taking someone's T-cells and injecting them in you. This is how they did it. They didn't just simply inject cloned T-cells into someone.

[gutted9999]

Stem cells are not rejected by the host immune system. If you look at the post about the HIV patient they replaced his bone marrow which was damaged through chemotherapy with stem cells containing HIV resistant dna from someone else.