Jump to content

Beta Glucan - iC3b protein - Cell Death


Recommended Posts

Ok, this is my own "research" but I thought I would pass it along.

I was reading about a Beta Glucan product and came across the following link

http://www.beta-glucan-info.com/cancer_study.htm

Our body actually makes some anti-tumor antibodies on its own but, for maximal effect, giving both beta-glucan and a source of anti-tumor antibodies seems important in the treatment protocols involving patients with an already active cancer. The anti-tumor antibodies "prime" the tumor cells with the iC3b protein so that, along with beta-glucan, the C3 receptor on neutrophils is completely covered.

Figure (4) shows what is involved in completing the C3 receptor binding that triggers tumor cell death.

There are similarities between HSV and cancer so I checked to see if HSV infected cells also have this iC3b protein and guess what, they do:

or

Herpes simplex virus glycoprotein C is a receptor for complement component iC3b. (pubmed)

Herpes simplex virus type 1-infected cells bind C3b and iC3b, but not C3d, at the cell surface.

This is interesting to me. Although most of it is still new to me it seems like the Beta Glucan can attach to the iC3b receptor and initiate cellular death. But maybe not. Also it might require an adjuvant anti tumor medicine.

Also

Mechanism by which orally administered beta-1,3-glucans enhance the tumoricidal activity of antitumor monoclonal antibodies in murine tumor models.

Effects of beta-glucans on the immune system.

I would assume a researcher would be able to assess this information.

Any thoughts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, it looks like Rituximab, Cetuximab and Traztuzumab would be anti-tumor medicines that would facilitate the cell death. These look like hard core drugs. That sucks. Ok, maybe there is something out there that has similar effect to these but without the dangers. Does anyone know?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a clue. I was hoping we could rid ourselves of this virus without causing cell death. The Trim21 gene does that. Yet, the reduction of viral load may be due to cell death, but how??? I know, your wondering that to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't have a clue. I was hoping we could rid ourselves of this virus without causing cell death. The Trim21 gene does that. Yet, the reduction of viral load may be due to cell death, but how??? I know, your wondering that to.

I think the Trim21 can kill the virus inside the infected cell before the DNA is released into the cell. After the DNA gets woven into the cellular DNA I don't think Trim21 can help. Either the DNA needs to be ripped out or the cell must undergo death. Keep in mind that cells die all the time. Cellular apoptosis is natural. I just don't know if killing ALL the infected cells at once might cause problems. I guess it depends how embedded the virus has become.

I did find the following related to TRIM21 and viral infection.

Previously, scientists had assumed that in order to attack and kill a

virus, it was necessary to attack and destroy the infected cells as well. But the new research confirms that it is not necessary to destroy the infected cells along with the virus in order to get rid of it.

Sweet7 - What do you think of the iC3b protein and beta glucan? Maybe cellular death through this mechanism could be slow going over a period of time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have to read on it some more. I have also read that HSV dna doesn't weave into our dna as previously thought. It is circular and just sits in the necleus of our neurons. That's why haven't researched much about apoptosis because it may not be needed. But, you could very well be onto something so I'll get to it when I get a chance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll have to read on it some more. I have also read that HSV dna doesn't weave into our dna as previously thought. It is circular and just sits in the necleus of our neurons. That's why haven't researched much about apoptosis because it may not be needed. But, you could very well be onto something so I'll get to it when I get a chance.

That is interesting. But I wonder how the circular DNA is still going to be removed?

Do you have a link regarding the DNA not being weaved?

Also, I found a recent article talking about TRIM and viral coats.

Antivirus discovery no cure for the common cold... yet

In addition, this only works when an entire virus, antibodies and all, is carried into the cell. Many viruses, including some cold viruses and HIV, have a coat that ends up left at the membrane, along with any antibodies stuck to it. Only a protected inner shell makes its way inside the cell, with no antibodies for TRIM21 to recognize.

So, we're still largely stuck where we were previously, with vaccines still being the best way to produce antibodies, and some viruses steadfastly resisting our attempts to develop vaccines. Control over this new system might ultimately help us lessen the impact of an infection once it's gone on long enough to induce antibodies, but that's a long way from eliminating the common cold.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I should also mention that I don't think that turning on cellular apoptosis necessarily means immediate cellular death. Maybe it is delayed an amount of time so that not all of them die off at same time. Wouldn't this result in drop in viral load?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Struggle, I got the theory of the latent dna being circular from someone else on the forum who gave me this link:

http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~faculty/wagner/hsv7f.html

The maintenance of the HSV genome in latently infected neurons appears to be entirely passive; i.e., it requires no viral gene expression or gene product at all. However, HSV DNA is maintained as a nucleosomal, circular episome in latent infections, and low levels of genome replication might occur or be necessary for the establishment or maintenance of a latent infection from which virus can be efficiently reactivated.

I have read another more recent study where it was determined that some replication does take place in the neuron.

The point of me bringing up the Trim21 gene is because I think it could be possible that antivirals when delivered directly into the cells, just might trigger that gene. It may not even matter if the dna is weaved. If the Trim21 protein begins to dismantle the antiviral and the antiviral is bound to the dna, the dna just might get thrown in the trash too. Yet, you have a really good point about the speed of the trim21 gene. It must happen pretty fast since it is supposed to dismantle viruses mostly before they can do any harm. I hope to find the articles that state that AIC-316 and CMX001 can reduce viral load. There are posted on threads on this forum somewhere. From what I have read, the drug molecules of both of these nid’s can cross the blood brain barrier and are uptaken by cells. I’m not sure if Valtrex is taken up by the cells. I’ll have to look into that. I know it blocks replication but not sure how, and it doesn’t do it as well as these new nid’s according to the research they have done

Link to post
Share on other sites
I should also mention that I don't think that turning on cellular apoptosis necessarily means immediate cellular death. Maybe it is delayed an amount of time so that not all of them die off at same time. Wouldn't this result in drop in viral load?

There was a thread around here somewhere about HSV being cancer, and I put up there the research showing that the HSV infected cell undergoes cell apoptosis, but after like the second or third stage it is halted mid way via mitochondrial pathways. I forgot which mitochondrial pathways those were, but they are blocked off. If we could only turn those mitochondrial pathways back on.

Check this out http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-12-25/can-meditation-cure-disease/2/

It's really amazing to me. I don't really buy in too much to that spiritual magic crap, but the Asians are always talking about energies, and chakras and chi's, and come to think of it, what is a mitochondrial pathway? An energy pathway. There is something here, not sure what it is though, but I sense a connection between the two. Scientists at New York University are studying his brain.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally had a chance to read these articles and think I’ll have to read them again. This is an interesting concept but there may be another way. I was talking to a co-worker who was eating broccoli today and remembered hearing about broccoli having a high number of anti-oxidants. So, I looked it up and got a pleasant surprise. Check out the Nutritional and medicinal section</SPAN>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli

Check out the research section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli_sprouts

So, sulforaphane glucosinolate is another avenue to explore as is Indole-3-carbinol

Link to post
Share on other sites
I finally had a chance to read these articles and think I’ll have to read them again. This is an interesting concept but there may be another way. I was talking to a co-worker who was eating broccoli today and remembered hearing about broccoli having a high number of anti-oxidants. So, I looked it up and got a pleasant surprise. Check out the Nutritional and medicinal section</SPAN>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli

Check out the research section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli_sprouts

So, sulforaphane glucosinolate is another avenue to explore as is Indole-3-carbinol

LOL. Been there, done that. I tried I3C a while back. I3C doesn't have anywhere near the science compared to Beta Glucan. Respectfully, I would forget about brocolli and anti-oxidants. Anti-oxidants are mostly marketing and have no long term data showing help with anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it helping you?

Absotively! I would say the beta glucan has helped with approx. 50% of my problems, and maybe more. That is a huge benefit. I will continue to use and hopefully continue to see results. This is after all the anti-virals have failed.

The beta glucan even helped healed up a sore on my chest that is unrelated to this condition. It is remarkable stuff. I would recommend over all other supplements. But please try for yourself.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I should have known you would have already come accross that. Lol. I'm still heading down the trail I'm on. I'm starting to wonder when I'll bump into you. Well I gotta get some sleep.

I am waiting for my copy of Viruses and Human Disease, Second Edition to arrive. If you don't already have it I will let you know how it is. Almost should be required reading for this forum with all the techinical questions we have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Update

The Beta Glucan has definitely helped me with some serious nerve inflammation, amongst other things. I really think this is the best "natural" product for hsv. It would be great if more forum members gave it a try and provided feedback.

Check out the science of Beta Glucan online.

Link to post
Share on other sites

More supporting research

Antiviral effect of a polysaccharide from Sclerotium glucanicum towards herpes simplex virus type 1 infection.

Marchetti M, Pisani S, Pietropaolo V, Seganti L, Nicoletti R, Degener A, Orsi N.

Institute of Microbiology, University La Sapienza, Rome, Italy.

Abstract

Among different neutral polysaccharides from natural sources, scleroglucan from Sclerotium glucanicum significantly inhibits the replication of herpes simplex virus type 1 on Vero cells. Scleroglucan belongs to a class of exopolymers, expressed by members of genus Sclerotium and consists of a linear beta-1,3-linked glucopyranose with side chains of single glucopyranose residues linked through beta-1,6 glycosidic bonds. The effective antiviral concentration of this polysaccharide is far from the cytotoxicity threshold and consequently this natural product possesses a good selectivity index. Results obtained in experiments carried out in order to clarify the mechanism of action of this carbohydrate indicate that the block of infection occurs during the very early phases of the viral mutliplication cycle since the highest inhibitory effect took place when it was added during the attachment step. The antiviral effect of scleroglucan seems to be related to its binding with membrane glycoproteins of HSV-1 particles which impedes the complex interactions of the virus with the cell plasma membrane.

Inhibition of human monocyte-macrophage and lymphocyte cytotoxicity to herpes simplex-infected cells by glucan.

Kohl S, Pickering LK, Diluzio NR.

Abstract

The effect of short term in vitro incubation of glucan--a reticuloendothelial system stimulator--on subsequent cytotoxicity of human monocyte-macrophages (MP) and lymphocytes (L) to Herpes simplex virus-infected cells in a 51Cr-release assay was analyzed. Particulate, cell-associated glucan irreversibly inhibited MP antibody-dependent cellular cytotoxicity (ADCC). In contrast, the inhibition of L-ADCC and L-natural killer cytotoxicity could be reversed by dissociation of glucan and cells utilizing serum gradient centrifugation, a process which did not remove the glucan. These experiments reveal further basic differences between MP and L-ADCC using the reagent glucan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's helping, that is the important thing.

I doubt if many ordinary folks (unlike us, a bit "obsessive types" LOL) would need to have a research paper(s). Have you added this under "Treatment"? I'm sure ppl who were reading, had tried this.

maybe, you can also start a special thread of yours outlining what you tried and what your experiences were? That would be very interesting :D xxx

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 years later...

Guess I'll give beta glucans a try, it's such a shame that so many of these potentially helpful remedies have crazy side effects. Then again, I dont think herpes infected cells serve much use in body life maintaining functions anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
On 1/11/2019 at 11:03 AM, 2kroc said:

Guess I'll give beta glucans a try, it's such a shame that so many of these potentially helpful remedies have crazy side effects. Then again, I dont think herpes infected cells serve much use in body life maintaining functions anyway.

Did Beta Glucan help lessen your hsv symptoms? What brand did you take?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
On 1/22/2011 at 12:02 AM, struggle83 said:

 

Absotively! I would say the beta glucan has helped with approx. 50% of my problems, and maybe more. That is a huge benefit. I will continue to use and hopefully continue to see results. This is after all the anti-virals have failed.

 

The beta glucan even helped healed up a sore on my chest that is unrelated to this condition. It is remarkable stuff. I would recommend over all other supplements. But please try for yourself.

I totally agree with you, I have been taking beta glucans for several months and I felt 100% better than when I do not take them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/30/2020 at 1:56 AM, Jesusislove777 said:

I totally agree with you, I have been taking beta glucans for several months and I felt 100% better than when I do not take them.

Where do you get Beta Gulcan and what quantity?  Does it require a Rx?  Thanks, JHenry

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Donate

    If Honeycomb has helped you, please help us by making a donation so we can provide you with even better features and services.

  • The Hive is Thriving!

    • Total Topics
      71,807
    • Total Posts
      485,686
  • 0_unsure-if-it-is-herpes.png

    Nervous about dating with herpes? Skip "the talk" and browse profiles here.

  • Posts

    • CHT
      1.11 on the IgG test is still really low and could easily be a cross-reaction with the antibodies you have for HSV1..... based on all your data, it sure does not seem as though you have HSV2.... I'd relax and go with that....
    • CHT
      Hey Willily..... what would make you think you have HSV2?  Have you been tested?  Results?  The idea of getting it in the kidneys is unheard of (at least in my non-medical opinion)..... HSV2 tends to stay in the urogential area of the body and to a lesser degree can also be transmitted to the lips/mouth but, inside of an internal organ?  No.  
    • CHT
      Hey Lucy.... well, I guess getting much the same answer from the gyno specialist sort of puts the whole issue back into the category of "it's not likely HSV" you're dealing with down there..... and stick to the 1 gram of valacylovir (which I think is good advice).... did she pull any blood samples or did you bring the data you already have with you?  If I recall, your HSV2 antibodies level were very low, almost "borderline" thus giving more doubt that you may actually have HSV2.  Not sure why she would lean toward HSV2 and not HSV1 based solely on your IgG results..... So she thinks you have seborrheic dermatitis down there?  I've never heard of that but, that means nothing.... hopefully with the new medication, that will be under control in a few weeks or couple of months..... then it will be interesting to see if you have any sign of problems in that zone.... particularly if you stay with the valacylovir.    BTW, the full nude body exam must have come as a surprise!  LOL.  But, she was being extremely thorough I suppose.... better than rushing you in/out.   Oh, and to answer an earlier question, so far, it's been about 3 or 4 weeks back on 1 g/day of valacylovir.... and so far all clear!  It's not a record for me but, I am encouraged.  Also interesting to note that I've been dealing with a whopper of a stomach virus for last 5 days (fever, chills, aches, etc).... I thought for sure this would put too much pressure on my immune system and allow my HSV2 to reactivate but, fortunately, all clear, not even any prodrome.... but, I won't get too excited just yet, it can all change in a second!  
    • Fernie
      I’ve been diagnosed with hsv1 and have had some cold sores on the inside of my lips.  I’ve been diagnosed for some time with that. But around July 2020 I went in for an std panel and to my surprise my hsv2 IGG levels were equivocal.  My doctor at the time told me that I indefinitely had hsv2 although I’ve never had any symptoms.  This began a whole craze. I switched doctors and ordered another hsv2 test that also came back equivocal and was told that what the first doctor said was correct, that I do in fact have hsv2. The fact that I wasn’t testing positive and none of my past sexual partners tested positive led me to think I should keep getting tested to confirm whether I do or don’t have it.  So I went for the third test and it was .72 IGG which would be a negative. (Around July 2020 as well) I was still a little confused so I went for another a couple months later in October 2020, this hsv2 test was .89 IGG which is right under equivocal but still negative.  So armed with this data I went to a private doctor that I paid out of pocket for because I began to think that the Medicaid doctors might be wrong and maybe underpaid or whatever I dunno it just didn’t make sense. So I went to the private doctor and at the time I had what seemed to be like a small ingrown hair and I showed them and showed them my data. They said based off the ingrown hair that it was just an ingrown hair, and that the lab results were correct and that I had no hsv2 and that the prior doctors were wrong. The doctor said I should’ve never been tested because I never had any symptoms prior to that small ingrown hair.  So this made me happy but also made me lose faith in our healthcare system.  But just recently I went back for my 10 panel and on 6/9/2021 my hsv2 results were 1.11 IGG which indicates I am positive. This is driving me crazy and on a side note I noticed that my hsv1 IGG levels were both gradually going up as the hsv2 was creeping up. I dunno if there’s any correlation there but it’s just something I went back to look at out of curiosity because I do know I’m hsv1 positive.  At this point I just want to know if I am in fact hsv2 positive, what should I do? I want to get the western blot test because it’s supposedly the golden standard.   here are copies of my tests  https://ibb.co/Wskdtqs https://ibb.co/fGgjJxd https://ibb.co/HryKn8g
    • ohno35
      I'm sorry you're struggling to find answers; I feel like I'm in a similar place.  When I stopped worrying about the symptoms, they eventually went away completely after almost two years. Then, I did not experience any symptoms AT ALL for 2.5 years. In April I started worrying about the symptoms again, and they came back and are pretty much constant, as they were before. I know that it looks like it's *just* anxiety. But my gut is telling me there might be something else going on. I'm getting the WB done so I can finally rule out herpes completely.  I've been diagnosed with somatic symptom disorder, and I've wondered if it's not just anxiety about symptoms but hyperfocus on certain parts of my body that makes the nerves more sensitive and causes neurological-like issues. I've always struggled with hyperfocus and I've found I fit into the diagnostic criteria for Autism, ADHD, and OCD, but do not have enough of any of the symptoms to qualify for a diagnosis (though I have been misdiagnosed with 2/3 multiple times). The concept of Vulvodynia seems interesting because my understanding of it is that it results from hypersensitive nerves from a variety of initial causes. I wonder if hyperfocus on my vagina, vulva, and mouth is causing certain symptoms.  I definitely had extreme anxiety about herpes before my symptoms started, but I did have an outbreak on my mouth of something that seemed too long-lasting and blistery to just be a pimple, so I wonder if herpes or another related virus is involved too. I know I'm anxious, but I still know my body and I've never had anything on my mouth like that before, as far back as I can remember. I still have the scar from the huge blister almost five years later!!!!! Otherwise I would have been effectively gaslit by my doctors that it was a pimple and I was overreacting. It's possible though that I have had HSV-1 since childhood and had a rare herpes outbreak, but all the other symptoms are largely unrelated. I was hospitalized at age 4 for an extreme reaction to mono and possibly HSV-1, so I'll have to see if I can locate those hospital records. If I can confirm I was positive for HSV 1 at age 4 and also come up positive on the WB, I could still probably rule out my current symptoms being caused by herpes.  If my herpes WB is negative, I do wonder if another virus could be the culprit. I'm not sure if other things can cause blisters on the mouth, or if the oral blister and my other symptoms are unrelated. I know CMV is not out of the question. I know that hand, foot, and mouth disease was epidemic at my University at the time, so it could have caused the oral sore and maybe been an instigator for chronic pain? I've been reading about how certain infections can be catalysts for nerve pain, reactive arthritis, and so on for people with certain genes, autoimmune issues, high levels of stress, and/or other pre-existing risks. I've always had weird reactions to things despite being seemingly healthy, so that would not be out of the question.  We seem to have very similar symptoms, so I'll keep you updated on what I find! I'm getting blood drawn for the WB next week, and then I'll see what happens after that. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.