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struggle83

Beta Glucan - iC3b protein - Cell Death

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struggle83

Ok, this is my own "research" but I thought I would pass it along.

I was reading about a Beta Glucan product and came across the following link

http://www.beta-glucan-info.com/cancer_study.htm

Our body actually makes some anti-tumor antibodies on its own but, for maximal effect, giving both beta-glucan and a source of anti-tumor antibodies seems important in the treatment protocols involving patients with an already active cancer. The anti-tumor antibodies "prime" the tumor cells with the iC3b protein so that, along with beta-glucan, the C3 receptor on neutrophils is completely covered.

Figure (4) shows what is involved in completing the C3 receptor binding that triggers tumor cell death.

There are similarities between HSV and cancer so I checked to see if HSV infected cells also have this iC3b protein and guess what, they do:

or

Herpes simplex virus glycoprotein C is a receptor for complement component iC3b. (pubmed)

Herpes simplex virus type 1-infected cells bind C3b and iC3b, but not C3d, at the cell surface.

This is interesting to me. Although most of it is still new to me it seems like the Beta Glucan can attach to the iC3b receptor and initiate cellular death. But maybe not. Also it might require an adjuvant anti tumor medicine.

Also

Mechanism by which orally administered beta-1,3-glucans enhance the tumoricidal activity of antitumor monoclonal antibodies in murine tumor models.

Effects of beta-glucans on the immune system.

I would assume a researcher would be able to assess this information.

Any thoughts?

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struggle83

Ok, it looks like Rituximab, Cetuximab and Traztuzumab would be anti-tumor medicines that would facilitate the cell death. These look like hard core drugs. That sucks. Ok, maybe there is something out there that has similar effect to these but without the dangers. Does anyone know?

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Sweet7

I don't have a clue. I was hoping we could rid ourselves of this virus without causing cell death. The Trim21 gene does that. Yet, the reduction of viral load may be due to cell death, but how??? I know, your wondering that to.

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struggle83
I don't have a clue. I was hoping we could rid ourselves of this virus without causing cell death. The Trim21 gene does that. Yet, the reduction of viral load may be due to cell death, but how??? I know, your wondering that to.

I think the Trim21 can kill the virus inside the infected cell before the DNA is released into the cell. After the DNA gets woven into the cellular DNA I don't think Trim21 can help. Either the DNA needs to be ripped out or the cell must undergo death. Keep in mind that cells die all the time. Cellular apoptosis is natural. I just don't know if killing ALL the infected cells at once might cause problems. I guess it depends how embedded the virus has become.

I did find the following related to TRIM21 and viral infection.

Previously, scientists had assumed that in order to attack and kill a

virus, it was necessary to attack and destroy the infected cells as well. But the new research confirms that it is not necessary to destroy the infected cells along with the virus in order to get rid of it.

Sweet7 - What do you think of the iC3b protein and beta glucan? Maybe cellular death through this mechanism could be slow going over a period of time.

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Sweet7

I'll have to read on it some more. I have also read that HSV dna doesn't weave into our dna as previously thought. It is circular and just sits in the necleus of our neurons. That's why haven't researched much about apoptosis because it may not be needed. But, you could very well be onto something so I'll get to it when I get a chance.

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struggle83
I'll have to read on it some more. I have also read that HSV dna doesn't weave into our dna as previously thought. It is circular and just sits in the necleus of our neurons. That's why haven't researched much about apoptosis because it may not be needed. But, you could very well be onto something so I'll get to it when I get a chance.

That is interesting. But I wonder how the circular DNA is still going to be removed?

Do you have a link regarding the DNA not being weaved?

Also, I found a recent article talking about TRIM and viral coats.

Antivirus discovery no cure for the common cold... yet

In addition, this only works when an entire virus, antibodies and all, is carried into the cell. Many viruses, including some cold viruses and HIV, have a coat that ends up left at the membrane, along with any antibodies stuck to it. Only a protected inner shell makes its way inside the cell, with no antibodies for TRIM21 to recognize.

So, we're still largely stuck where we were previously, with vaccines still being the best way to produce antibodies, and some viruses steadfastly resisting our attempts to develop vaccines. Control over this new system might ultimately help us lessen the impact of an infection once it's gone on long enough to induce antibodies, but that's a long way from eliminating the common cold.

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struggle83

I should also mention that I don't think that turning on cellular apoptosis necessarily means immediate cellular death. Maybe it is delayed an amount of time so that not all of them die off at same time. Wouldn't this result in drop in viral load?

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Sweet7

Struggle, I got the theory of the latent dna being circular from someone else on the forum who gave me this link:

http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~faculty/wagner/hsv7f.html

The maintenance of the HSV genome in latently infected neurons appears to be entirely passive; i.e., it requires no viral gene expression or gene product at all. However, HSV DNA is maintained as a nucleosomal, circular episome in latent infections, and low levels of genome replication might occur or be necessary for the establishment or maintenance of a latent infection from which virus can be efficiently reactivated.

I have read another more recent study where it was determined that some replication does take place in the neuron.

The point of me bringing up the Trim21 gene is because I think it could be possible that antivirals when delivered directly into the cells, just might trigger that gene. It may not even matter if the dna is weaved. If the Trim21 protein begins to dismantle the antiviral and the antiviral is bound to the dna, the dna just might get thrown in the trash too. Yet, you have a really good point about the speed of the trim21 gene. It must happen pretty fast since it is supposed to dismantle viruses mostly before they can do any harm. I hope to find the articles that state that AIC-316 and CMX001 can reduce viral load. There are posted on threads on this forum somewhere. From what I have read, the drug molecules of both of these nid’s can cross the blood brain barrier and are uptaken by cells. I’m not sure if Valtrex is taken up by the cells. I’ll have to look into that. I know it blocks replication but not sure how, and it doesn’t do it as well as these new nid’s according to the research they have done

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SuperManFace
I should also mention that I don't think that turning on cellular apoptosis necessarily means immediate cellular death. Maybe it is delayed an amount of time so that not all of them die off at same time. Wouldn't this result in drop in viral load?

There was a thread around here somewhere about HSV being cancer, and I put up there the research showing that the HSV infected cell undergoes cell apoptosis, but after like the second or third stage it is halted mid way via mitochondrial pathways. I forgot which mitochondrial pathways those were, but they are blocked off. If we could only turn those mitochondrial pathways back on.

Check this out http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-12-25/can-meditation-cure-disease/2/

It's really amazing to me. I don't really buy in too much to that spiritual magic crap, but the Asians are always talking about energies, and chakras and chi's, and come to think of it, what is a mitochondrial pathway? An energy pathway. There is something here, not sure what it is though, but I sense a connection between the two. Scientists at New York University are studying his brain.

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Sweet7

I finally had a chance to read these articles and think I’ll have to read them again. This is an interesting concept but there may be another way. I was talking to a co-worker who was eating broccoli today and remembered hearing about broccoli having a high number of anti-oxidants. So, I looked it up and got a pleasant surprise. Check out the Nutritional and medicinal section</SPAN>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli

Check out the research section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli_sprouts

So, sulforaphane glucosinolate is another avenue to explore as is Indole-3-carbinol

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struggle83
I finally had a chance to read these articles and think I’ll have to read them again. This is an interesting concept but there may be another way. I was talking to a co-worker who was eating broccoli today and remembered hearing about broccoli having a high number of anti-oxidants. So, I looked it up and got a pleasant surprise. Check out the Nutritional and medicinal section</SPAN>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli

Check out the research section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broccoli_sprouts

So, sulforaphane glucosinolate is another avenue to explore as is Indole-3-carbinol

LOL. Been there, done that. I tried I3C a while back. I3C doesn't have anywhere near the science compared to Beta Glucan. Respectfully, I would forget about brocolli and anti-oxidants. Anti-oxidants are mostly marketing and have no long term data showing help with anything.

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struggle83
Is it helping you?

Absotively! I would say the beta glucan has helped with approx. 50% of my problems, and maybe more. That is a huge benefit. I will continue to use and hopefully continue to see results. This is after all the anti-virals have failed.

The beta glucan even helped healed up a sore on my chest that is unrelated to this condition. It is remarkable stuff. I would recommend over all other supplements. But please try for yourself.

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Sweet7

Well, I should have known you would have already come accross that. Lol. I'm still heading down the trail I'm on. I'm starting to wonder when I'll bump into you. Well I gotta get some sleep.

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struggle83
Well, I should have known you would have already come accross that. Lol. I'm still heading down the trail I'm on. I'm starting to wonder when I'll bump into you. Well I gotta get some sleep.

I am waiting for my copy of Viruses and Human Disease, Second Edition to arrive. If you don't already have it I will let you know how it is. Almost should be required reading for this forum with all the techinical questions we have.

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struggle83
So it doesn't cause any diarrhea like Aloe Vera does?

No, it shouldn't.

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struggle83

Update

The Beta Glucan has definitely helped me with some serious nerve inflammation, amongst other things. I really think this is the best "natural" product for hsv. It would be great if more forum members gave it a try and provided feedback.

Check out the science of Beta Glucan online.

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struggle83

More supporting research

Antiviral effect of a polysaccharide from Sclerotium glucanicum towards herpes simplex virus type 1 infection.

Marchetti M, Pisani S, Pietropaolo V, Seganti L, Nicoletti R, Degener A, Orsi N.

Institute of Microbiology, University La Sapienza, Rome, Italy.

Abstract

Among different neutral polysaccharides from natural sources, scleroglucan from Sclerotium glucanicum significantly inhibits the replication of herpes simplex virus type 1 on Vero cells. Scleroglucan belongs to a class of exopolymers, expressed by members of genus Sclerotium and consists of a linear beta-1,3-linked glucopyranose with side chains of single glucopyranose residues linked through beta-1,6 glycosidic bonds. The effective antiviral concentration of this polysaccharide is far from the cytotoxicity threshold and consequently this natural product possesses a good selectivity index. Results obtained in experiments carried out in order to clarify the mechanism of action of this carbohydrate indicate that the block of infection occurs during the very early phases of the viral mutliplication cycle since the highest inhibitory effect took place when it was added during the attachment step. The antiviral effect of scleroglucan seems to be related to its binding with membrane glycoproteins of HSV-1 particles which impedes the complex interactions of the virus with the cell plasma membrane.

Inhibition of human monocyte-macrophage and lymphocyte cytotoxicity to herpes simplex-infected cells by glucan.

Kohl S, Pickering LK, Diluzio NR.

Abstract

The effect of short term in vitro incubation of glucan--a reticuloendothelial system stimulator--on subsequent cytotoxicity of human monocyte-macrophages (MP) and lymphocytes (L) to Herpes simplex virus-infected cells in a 51Cr-release assay was analyzed. Particulate, cell-associated glucan irreversibly inhibited MP antibody-dependent cellular cytotoxicity (ADCC). In contrast, the inhibition of L-ADCC and L-natural killer cytotoxicity could be reversed by dissociation of glucan and cells utilizing serum gradient centrifugation, a process which did not remove the glucan. These experiments reveal further basic differences between MP and L-ADCC using the reagent glucan.

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camomile

If it's helping, that is the important thing.

I doubt if many ordinary folks (unlike us, a bit "obsessive types" LOL) would need to have a research paper(s). Have you added this under "Treatment"? I'm sure ppl who were reading, had tried this.

maybe, you can also start a special thread of yours outlining what you tried and what your experiences were? That would be very interesting :D xxx

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