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Coco2

Life is too good I forgot I had GHSV 1 ?!

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Coco2

I just recently moved to a new city and things are really starting to look up since my last boyfriend (the one who infected me), so good that I forgot I have GHSV 1. I just starting dating this amazing guy and at first we used condoms but we started not using them. I am so comfortable with him that I forgot to mention that I have this "condition" .. if that even makes sense ..

I know this sounds horrible!!!!! I'm feeling really bad about everything. I think I forgot about it because I've only had one OB, ever and that was over a year ago. Clearly I need to talk to him about this and he's probably wont be happy about it now because I didn't do the pre-warning talk.

Any advice ?? I feel really shitty about myself right now :( .. How could I be so forgetful .. :'( Has this ever happened to someone ???

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MissHope

Um no, it hasn't happened to me - I guess I don't think that I could ever forget that I have herpes....

But I guess I see where you are coming from too though.

I think you just need to be honest and tell this feller - and soon. The longer you leave it, the worse it will be. Just tell him the truth - and talk from the heart. Don't make excuses as he probably won't want to hear them.

I do wish you well..... let us know how things go.

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mortmaiden

I have ghsv-1 and I only remember I have it when I come on here - I never, ever think about it when I am with my boyfriend. I don't get outbreaks, and think of it as the same as cold sores, so why would I?

I've been with my boyfriend for a year and haven't told him yet. We stopped using condoms a looong time ago. I'll probably tell him at some point in the future, maybe if we move in together - I always thought I'd wait until I actually had an outbreak to explain but it just hasn't happened. I once told him I got cold sores, but didn't explain any further.

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stephxo

I have ghsv-1 as well but i do believe it is completely necessary to inform your partners. although the transmission rate is lower than type 2 you can still pass it on to someone else. there are definitely risks involved and it would be better to tell your partner sooner than later. what happens if they get it and you never informed them? they will most likely lose a lot of trust in you and like many others on this site who weren't told prior, they will resent you as well. i think for the sake of your relationships, as hard as it is, you need to be honest. just my opinion! best of lucky. :)

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mortmaiden

I don't feel a real need to tell, just if I actually suffer a future outbreak. If they get it, well I told him I get coldsores and therefore no one can prove I have it genitally. I really don't see hsv-1 as a risk or big deal - it is so minor and 80% of people my boyfriend's age have it anyway. It isn't any worse than having a spot or an ingrowing hair.

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MissHope
I don't feel a real need to tell, just if I actually suffer a future outbreak. If they get it, well I told him I get coldsores and therefore no one can prove I have it genitally. I really don't see hsv-1 as a risk or big deal - it is so minor and 80% of people my boyfriend's age have it anyway. It isn't any worse than having a spot or an ingrowing hair.

But it IS worse than an ingrown hair or a spot.... neither of those are contagious, whilst genital herpes is. Not only that, ingrowns and spots will clear up, whilst herpes won't. If he does get it from you, he will have it for life.

I understand it may not be a big deal to you, but to others it is.... and whilst it can't be proven (unless he is that upset he thinks about pressing charges) you are the one that will have to live with infecting him for the rest of his life. On top of this, he will have to live with your betrayal as well....

You may have managed to get away with not disclosing, but I certainly don't advocate anyone else taking this path - no good can come of it really, in the long run.

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Lattegirl

You might be interested to know that HSV-1 can cause genital herpes as well. HSV-1 is the virus that causes genital herpes in Japan and this is now being seen in the US. Genetically, there is not much difference between the HSV-1 virus and the HSV-2 virus. The HSV-1 virus is the primary cause of corneal blindness in the US and is can also cause encephalitis (brain inflammation). Thus, it is a big deal. You know you have the virus and you have a responsibility to tell any partner you are with. HSV-1, like HSV-2 can be shed without having any symptoms. You don't need a cold sore to spread it.

So, you could technically give your boyfriend genital herpes... it can take up residence down there just as well.

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mortmaiden
But it IS worse than an ingrown hair or a spot.... neither of those are contagious, whilst genital herpes is. Not only that, ingrowns and spots will clear up, whilst herpes won't. If he does get it from you, he will have it for life.

I understand it may not be a big deal to you, but to others it is.... and whilst it can't be proven (unless he is that upset he thinks about pressing charges) you are the one that will have to live with infecting him for the rest of his life. On top of this, he will have to live with your betrayal as well....

You may have managed to get away with not disclosing, but I certainly don't advocate anyone else taking this path - no good can come of it really, in the long run.

At the end of the day, you can comment freely, but it is my life and actually not your business.

Thanks.

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Stillmyself
At the end of the day, you can comment freely, but it is my life and actually not your business.

Thanks.

Ok, so I am trying to be fair, and not be very upset with the entire thread. I have HSV 1 and got it from BF who didn't realize that him having cold sores on his mouth would pass it to me genitally. So now, I have to suffer through the outbreaks, the pain, the ulcers, and he gets off scott free. So say, you never get another outbreak, which is possible, but still are able to pass it to him. He may not find out for years, as men have a less chance of showing signs of any STI than women. Now you have to tell himthat you don't have 'cold sores' orally, but genitally. I don't think he is going to see it the same way as you are seeing it now.

Why are you here if you don't want support? Everyone on here is here because they have no one else to turn to. You obviously don't care. It's because of people like you that 80% of people have this disease. You are not doing anything good here, if you don't want advice, then don't ask for it. You came to us, telling your story. Did you think we were all going to sit back and applaude you? There are people on here suffering, and you are sitting there laughing. This is not something you forget.

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mortmaiden

Actually, not everyone here is here for support. I tend to provide information about hsv-1 and hsv-2, having read most of the available info and papers on them in years since I caught hsv-1. I also try on other threads to give a more relaxed and balanced viewpoint on this - hsv-1 is NOT the end of the world. I don't feel the need for support myself and I DID NOT ask for advice! I am not the thread starter.

No, I didn't think you were all going to applaud. I've been a member on here before with another identity and have a fair idea of what reactions to expect. This board very definitely has one angle on telling, especially with regards to hsv-1. I give my own opinion, which I am entitled to. Strangely enough some of us do hold different opinions, and it is my right to express that on the board.

Oh yes, I was upset 7 years ago when I was diagnosed. But I've come to terms with it. It really is physically no worse than a pimple, and no worse than an oral cold sore.

I don't see any issue with him knowing I get cold sores and not knowing my infection is genital not oral. Your problem is that you are hung up on the fact that you have a genital infection and think somehow that makes it a big deal while cold sores aren't. It doesn't. Why else do you think you see your BF as getting off 'scott free'? I'm sorry, but in purely physical terms, when talking of an established infection, genital hsv-1 is NO more severe than oral hsv-1 and tends to recur far less often. It is also much less infectious.

And I don't have to tell him anything. Just mentioning I got cold sores in the past is a lot more than most people with a history of oral cold sores would do. I'm not going to be forced into enduring the stigma of having it genitally rather than oral just because that is what you and others are doing to yourselves and just because that is what you think I should do.

Somehow I think if I had ORAL hsv-1 you wouldn't be throwing such a hissy fit, which tells me something worrying about your own attitude to it TBH.

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Stillmyself

Any advice ?? I feel really shitty about myself right now :( .. How could I be so forgetful .. :'( Has this ever happened to someone ???

Did you not just say "any advice"? It's not that we are really down on ourselves. It's that we mostly want to move on and get advice on dating and relationships. With myself, I want to educate people that 'cold sores' are not something to just 'forget about', they are serious and need to be addressed. In a world that kissing and sex are so casual, we - as a population- need to educate ourselves the reprocussions.

It is up to you if you tell him, however it would be the same thing as you having another STI like Chlamydia, not treating it, and not telling him. It's contagious. It doesn't matter how contagious, it still affects lives. It can cause blindness and other infections. he may not get it orally, but ocularily, and then become blind...how would you feel then?

You are playing with fire. I have read more of your posts. I do not let this virus rule my life, I live every day appreciating that this had made me stronger, and have told every single one of my sexual partners that I have it.

Maybe- are you deep down scared that he will reject you? Most of the population that have oral HSV 1 do not see it as bad- it's just a cold sore- but we know differently. You are lucky you've only had one outbreak. My first one lasted a month, and I was completly ulcerated, and could hardly sit down. I would never wish this upon anyone. I have had trouble dating, and my ex that gave it to me is now married- does she know that he gave it to someone? Did he give it to her as well? That's what I mean scott free- his parents/doctor whatever never told him to disclose this information. cold sores arn't seen as STI's- but I have to. He can sue you for this if you don't tell him it's genital. Letting someone 'assume' that it's just cold sores is wrong. I am glad that I have a good moral compass.

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Supporting

I think you might be getting coco (the original poster who wanted advice) and mortmaiden confused. As almost all of you know, most people have HSV I orally & are highly resistant to recatching it genitally. And, of course, HSV I sheds much less. Therefore, I don't think HSV I is a huge deal transmission-wise, but I definitely think you should be upfront and honest about it -- for your relationship's sake. Ask if your bf has ever had a cold sore... If so, then he should be accepting of you having it genitally. (Unless he views the lack of honesty as a betrayal).

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MissHope
At the end of the day, you can comment freely, but it is my life and actually not your business.

Thanks.

Yes, yes I can comment freely and I was commenting to Coco2 (the original poster) and to anyone else that may be having a dilemma with telling partners. You, MortMaiden, have already made your mind up and will not be budged but there are others that may be in two minds. So it was to them that I was saying I don't advocate lying or hiding this information.

Whilst some carry a 'mild' form of the virus, others they pass it on to may not be so lucky, so it's not so much a case of 'meh, its no big deal to ME' but rather the good and honest thing to do.

And BTW, when you share information on a public forum about yourself, you make it other people's business..... just sayin'.

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mortmaiden
Did you not just say "any advice"?

No, I didn't. If you look you'll see that you've quoted someone else. I am not the OP.

With myself, I want to educate people that 'cold sores' are not something to just 'forget about', they are serious and need to be addressed.

Most of the population that have oral HSV 1 do not see it as bad- it's just a cold sore- but we know differently.

I disagree. Hsv-1 is a virus carried by at least two thirds of adults. For the vast majority it is a very minor thing - no worse than a pimple. Ok, a primary outbreak can make you feel a bit crap, orally or genitally, because it is a virus, just like flu, but the vast majority of oral AND genital hsv-1 carriers, after a few years, do not even get outbreaks, and if they do it is no more than the occasional cold sore.

The fact that hsv-1 can be transmitted to the genitals does not merit demonising oral herpes. Cold sores have not been demonised and stigmatised in the past because they do not deserve it. You see, once you step away from the stigma of "genital herpes" hsv-1 orally IS just the occasional cold sore - incredibly common and really not a big deal. I don't think they are serious, I don't think people with oral herpes should start feeling that it is a problem. hsv-1 is a minor infection carried by a majority of adults, and that is all it is. The fact that one person has it genitally and another orally does NOT make a difference to this.

It is up to you if you tell him, however it would be the same thing as you having another STI like Chlamydia, not treating it, and not telling him.

No, it really wouldn't. It would be the same thing as me having cold sores and not telling him. As it is, he knows I get cold sores. Just not where.

You are lucky you've only had one outbreak.

No, actually one outbreak is normal for genital hsv-1 - 50% of people never get a second outbreak. I had a few outbreaks in the couple of years after I caught it. Never more than 2-3 tiny blisters, usually 1. Now I don't get outbreaks any more.

My ex that gave it to me is now married- does she know that he gave it to someone? Did he give it to her as well?

It doesn't matter. 70% of guys have oral herpes. So what? Why are you so hung up on it? a) It is more likely than not that she has it herself, and B) she is not that likely to catch it if she doesn't - you were merely unlucky. If she isn't aware that his occasional cold sores can cause genital herpes, then that is the fault of her school sex ed and her for not educating herself. I DID know cold sores could cause genital herpes. It happened to me - so what? I only thought it could happen if my boyfriend had a cold sore. My bad for not educating myself a bit better about stds.

That's what I mean scott free- his parents/doctor whatever never told him to disclose this information. cold sores arn't seen as STI's- but I have to.

No, you don't have to. That is something you are putting on yourself. At the end of the day, you have the same virus as him and it is less infectious than his oral infection because it is out of its preferred location. I don't believe, in a society where more people than not have oral herpes, that he should need to disclose. I do believe that we should educate kids to know that cold sores are oral herpes, and can be transmitted to the genitals, but I don't believe we should make a big deal of that.

He can sue you for this if you don't tell him it's genital.

No, he really can't. For one, I don't live in the US. For another, no one can prove, physically, that I have a genital herpes infection because I don't get outbreaks. My blood test would show positive for hsv-1, which would normally be taken to indicate an oral infection. Without outbreaks, a doctor cannot tell otherwise, and since I practice oral sex with my boyfriend, if I had it orally I would be exposing him genitally anyway. And in my country, our health service does not even offer blood tests for herpes.

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Kitty123

Wow. I am dumfounded, speechless and beside myself at the post before mine.

I wouldn't even know how to respond to it.

You have the mindset of KNOWING you have GHSV1 and not disclosing because you don't think it can be proven? True - that blood tests cannot detect WHERE the infection is for HSV1 (because it can be in both or either/or region) but YOUR mentality is the same reason why I got infected with HSV2.

To have the mindset that '2/3rds of the population have HSV1' - well *I* don't have it. MANY people I know don't have it, but when my giver said, "Big deal - so many people have it" - and then disappeared from my life. He took away my choice.

No I am not bitter. I am over it. But your post alarms me because you are taking away someones CHOICE. You probably assume that they will feel like it's no big deal if they contract it from you. Well - you don't know that. That mentality has the potential to blow up in your face if you aren't careful.

'In your country'? Which country would THAT be? I'm in Canada, and if it's CANADA, yes, they do offer a wide variety of tests in ANY province.

My giver didn't think it was 'that big of a deal'. Thats how I got it. He didn't tell me.

Do you agree that spreading HSV is morally right just because a 'large population' has it? Key word is "THEY HAVE IT" - not "THEY WANTED IT".

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mortmaiden

I don't live in Canada. I don't have hsv-2. And the health service in my country does not provide any hsv blood test because it is considered uneconomic due to how prevalent it is. Ditto antivirals for pregnant women.

A large number of people have hsv-1. It is not a big deal.

Oooooh, you're angry. Look at all those CAPS! :) :) :)

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Kitty123

LOLOL Sorry, force of habit with the caps. I'm not really angry I am just passionate (like you are) about my views.

No hard feelings. I was just a tad speechless, but then had all that to say :)

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ScaryJimmy

I found this thread kind of interesting, and I totally understand where mortmaiden is coming from.

I have HSV-1 orally. I haven't had a cold sore since I was about 12. I had previously never even thought it necessary to disclose to someone that I had cold sores. I've never had anyone disclose a cold sore history to me. Quite often, I would end up dating someone and the fact that either of us get cold sores would just come up randomly.

Obviously, mortmaiden would take the precaution of not having sex if she was having an outbreak the same way that someone with a cold sore would not give someone oral sex. To me, a mortmaiden who uses condoms for sex would be less infectious than the "99% of the 70%" of the world who get cold sores and would never think to disclose.

I now disclose that I used to get cold sores when I was a child. Every girl has looked at me like I'm nuts for bringing it up. Of course, I live in a country where the attitude on HSV is far more relaxed.

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Lattegirl

Mortmaiden:

I disagree with your statement that HSV1 is less infectious. That is simply not true and yes, I am a virologist. HSV1 and HSV2 share about a 50% homology in their genetic makeup. They are technically, for all intenstive purposes, the same virus. We have classfied them as separate viruses because they are phylogenetically different enough to make them different viruses. The other thing is that everyone responds differently. What is highly infectious for one person, may not be infectious at all for another. You have no way of knowing this.

Ideally, the goal here would be to eradicate the virus (HSV1 or HSV2) from the human population. HSV-1 is the leading cause of corneal blindess in the US and is responsible for most (if not all) causes of hepetic encephalitis. Genital herpes is a huge problem for infants born to positive mothers. The infant picks up the virus on it's route out through the vaginal canal and the end result makes smallpox look like a walk in the park. Thus, both viruses are equally damaging in their own respects.

So, prevention of transmission is really the goal because not everyone responds the same way. What may be a slight cold sore to you could end up being the result of blindness to the person you infected, simply because you neglected to say anything and didn't give that person a choice.

You might be interested to know that some states are considering inacting laws that make it a felony to not reveal your status to a partner if you have genital herpes. I don't agree with this- I really believe people have an obligation to be responsible, simply because you know your status. Until we have a vaccination in place to protect uninfected people, our goal should be to reduce transmissions within the population. Not increase it, as you seem to be doing.

Just because someone else infected you doesn't mean you should be infecting others and feeling good about yourself for doing so. You are incredibly irresponsible and are only serving to perpetuate the ills of society, not make it better.

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ScaryJimmy

Lattegirl: Isn't the point whether someone with genital HSV-1 is less infectious than someone with genital HSV-2? I am pretty sure that mortmaiden is talking about genital-to-genital transmission.

But, definitely nice to have someone on the board who is in the field. :)

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MissHope
Mortmaiden:

I disagree with your statement that HSV1 is less infectious. That is simply not true and yes, I am a virologist. HSV1 and HSV2 share about a 50% homology in their genetic makeup. They are technically, for all intenstive purposes, the same virus. We have classfied them as separate viruses because they are phylogenetically different enough to make them different viruses. The other thing is that everyone responds differently. What is highly infectious for one person, may not be infectious at all for another. You have no way of knowing this.

Ideally, the goal here would be to eradicate the virus (HSV1 or HSV2) from the human population. HSV-1 is the leading cause of corneal blindess in the US and is responsible for most (if not all) causes of hepetic encephalitis. Genital herpes is a huge problem for infants born to positive mothers. The infant picks up the virus on it's route out through the vaginal canal and the end result makes smallpox look like a walk in the park. Thus, both viruses are equally damaging in their own respects.

So, prevention of transmission is really the goal because not everyone responds the same way. What may be a slight cold sore to you could end up being the result of blindness to the person you infected, simply because you neglected to say anything and didn't give that person a choice.

You might be interested to know that some states are considering inacting laws that make it a felony to not reveal your status to a partner if you have genital herpes. I don't agree with this- I really believe people have an obligation to be responsible, simply because you know your status. Until we have a vaccination in place to protect uninfected people, our goal should be to reduce transmissions within the population. Not increase it, as you seem to be doing.

Just because someone else infected you doesn't mean you should be infecting others and feeling good about yourself for doing so. You are incredibly irresponsible and are only serving to perpetuate the ills of society, not make it better.

Awesome post LatteGirl, thank you so much for your knowledge and insight. It's nice to see a scientific and medical based opinion.

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Lattegirl

ScaryJimmy:

I think I see what you are getting at and I think we are talking about the same thing.

Here's the scenario I'm thinking of. Female has HSV1 and gets cold sores. She gives unprotected oral sex to her male partner, but doesn't tell him she has HSV1. Not long after, he now has genital HSV1, complete with outbreaks.

There could be a scenario where you pick up HSV2 (because partner has no symptoms and doesn't know he/she is positive) from performing oral sex on someone else. Now you have HSV2 breaking out on your face.

Thus, it is all herpes and depending on where you are on the planet, either virus can be the cause of genital herpes or oral herpes. My whole point is that we need to stop the transmission of the virus and education is the start to that process.

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Tiny

I think the problem with any type of herpes is that disclosure involves people and people react in strange ways. There is no rule for how other people will take the news.

I got genital herpes from a person with a cold sore. It is not a mild infection for me--when not on suppressive meds I get outbreaks every six weeks or so. Because of how I got herpes and because of the severity of the herpes that I have I must admit I do get annoyed when I bring up herpes and the person I am with who has been snogging me for weeks says "oh, me too". This is part of the reason I began to refer to having cold sores and being none specific about the area, but I learnt a hard lesson about doing it that way.

Recently I have been with a man who I have strong feeling for--I mentioned getting cold sores early on, I have taken my suppressive meds in front of him, he was aware. When it started getting more serious I felt I had to tell him where I got outbreaks--and he freaked right out.

While I know there is no difference really between the different types of herpes, they do affect some people worse than other people...when breaking the news to somebody who is firstly not expecting it and secondly who doesn't have all the information you just don't know the reaction. Or as in my case this guy had experience, a previous partner with HSV 2 who was not on suppressives and utterly paranoid. It took a while to work through, the risk is that how a person takes it is dependent on the person's life experience, and they may interpret your watered down version of the truth to be a betrayal of trust.

I would assume people not being offered testing or suppressive meds are in the UK. I was originally diagnosed there and given cream for ocular herpes (for my eye vagina). Had I remained there with no access to suppressives and outbreaks every six weeks I would be dead by now...I think it is a fine system for most people. The fact is most people may not have symptoms and it is no big deal but there are other people out there whose lives it changes and for who it is a very, very big deal. I saw a young woman recently with herpes sores covering the entire lower part of her face, it was not mild, benign little HSV 1 for her.

The reality is you don't know the entire life experiences of person you are sleeping with you also don't know how herpes will affect them if they catch it. Using a persons ignorance or lack of understanding of a virus (cold sores are mild) and putting them at risk for a life changing experience can understandably be viewed by people who are seriously affected or weren't offered the choice as being a little selfish....and that is probably where people are coming from. I wouldn't take it personally--we each make out own choices and paths through life...and we all have different thresholds on what we consider to be appropriate behaviour.

People are hurt by herpes emotionally and physically. Understandably, when you strip the emotion away, we are only coming from a point of view of not wanting to have to welcome anybody else into the club.

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Lattegirl

VTiny:

Incredibly well said! Bravo!

I have often wondered how different herpes would be viewed if everyone was upfront and honest about this. Society tends to view herpes with a large amount of distain, oddly, no one seems to care about the other more dangerous viruses that circulate the planet. HIV is now (mostly) viewed as a chronic illness, not the 'anti-gay' disease perspective when the virus was first discovered. That view was changed in a relatively short period of time (~25 years), compared to the length of time that herpes has been in the human population.

My thinking for why the perspectives of HIV was changed was likely due to the number of famous people that revealed their positive status. Imagine how the view of herpes would change if affluent/famous/well-known people were to admit their status to the public? If people starting telling their stories?

My guess is that things would drastically change...

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ScaryJimmy
ScaryJimmy:

Here's the scenario I'm thinking of. Female has HSV1 and gets cold sores. She gives unprotected oral sex to her male partner, but doesn't tell him she has HSV1. Not long after, he now has genital HSV1, complete with outbreaks.

There could be a scenario where you pick up HSV2 (because partner has no symptoms and doesn't know he/she is positive) from performing oral sex on someone else. Now you have HSV2 breaking out on your face.

Obviously, both those scenarios carry some risk. But, I am kind of just thinking out loud to figure out the risk for someone with genital HSV-1 to transfer it to someone genitally. Here is my thinking:

1) 70% of the world already has antibodies to HSV-1;

2) Genital HSV-1 sheds less than genital HSV-2 and oral HSV-1;

3) Genital HSV-1 produces few recurrences (when one is most infectious);

4) Genital HSV-1 transmission can be reduced by using condoms for intercourse. Most people would not use condoms for oral sex;

Taking it all together, only 30% of mortmaiden's potential partners would even be at risk to begin with. Of those 30%, they are probably at less risk having a partner with genital HSV-1 than they would be with someone with oral HSV-1 (fewer recurrences, shedding, condoms) or genital HSV-2.

Is my thinking wrong here?

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      sex is okay its a weapon and clouds your judgement .  lose your purpose get used and have a kid or hearth problems from a real sinner devil . i know of government agents dating a woman to see whats going on . knocked her up and broke up .  makes her life hard and mental abuse of it all nd your future .  bad people . she was protestor .  had other events stalking threats . her friend moved to russia to escape stalking they go into your home leave things int turn in . mind games ..  stick to plan and not get misled .. all gods saying.  you end up with bg problems and may never get to your purpose the easy way . haha .  people kept me form it all time . many people are invested in themselves giving you bad advice .. their purpose not your purpose ... our body wears out , health problems . open to all sorts problems .  life can fall apart year after year , trapped with devils .. evil world . stick to your guns and morals .. gonna have sex like it and make smart choices .. sex enslave you faster anything. oldest trick in society and crimes go through sex and women as pawns and men playing games .  
    • cowpoke02
      any hot christian single and looking ? haha  . sex love is closes you ever get to god or enlightenment with loved one ..  religion  is fertility worship as well . you were screwed if couldn't have kids in old days for labor ..,  may pole is dads member shooting his seed and kid runs around it holding the ribbon/ seed .. celebrating life and father / mother ..  churches are kinda kinky .  just fertility .  i wouldn't say sex is sin ..  just saying be careful and don't get burned . be smart .  stay out of trouble . don't give your heart away it hurts and shortens life ..   don't lose your purpose and goals .. stay on path .  thats from philosophy as well. religion didn't create all this but it gets all the credit . lol.  i learning from you guys ..  like to make book . bible and ntuar religion and holy spirt and philosophy in it . make new bible . be awesome . creator / god version . 
    • cowpoke02
      it is good in many ways and very bad .  mostly good in it . if you interpret it right or understand it . mot don't till its to late . aha ..  a peace happy good life thing .. be happy cantdoit .  think of good christians . such great people . wish i grew up their neighbors . i lived with phsyco devils of earth in my own family .  no peace and hell on earth  , slave abused  rumored community beaten .  i could of learned court rules and life hacks from world history that are always true in current times ..  people make it to static and tyrant god is all instead of community and simple rules and laws .. equal people . 
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