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Sol

Vitaherpavac- Russian Vaccine?

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non stop guy

You can contact the clinic in russia that handles hsv.there's a link in regards to vitaherpavac on this site.they will respond right away telling you all about there clinic.they all speak english.they will also give u a phone number to speak to an english speaking rep.they take this crap serious over there!

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trust issues

They take this crap serious... but the u.s./fda doesn't. Yet we have the biggest stigma, in the world.

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growingingrace

I'm a little confused...is this an actual cure? It is not clear to me exactly what is being said here...I have had HSV 1 & 2 for 7 years and it has severly hindered my ability to even consider a relationship with again. I am a strong person and have been all my life, but this one has been a huge blow to me. I know how common it is, but even still...can someone please clarify what exactly the benefits of this drug are?

I would sooo appreciate it.

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non stop guy

It helps reduce o.b's in people that have many.I have had almost non stop o.b inside my mouth for over a yr. That's why I'm looking in to it.

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Toro

Is Panavir the new one or Vitaherpevac. I think my Russian will be usefull inorder to go there and get one of them if possible? Does anyone know about these vaccines?

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non stop guy

I think they have both been around a while.they give it to people that the normal stuff.(valtrex) doesn't work for.

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Toro

Sol

Sol can you please tell me more about your experience of Vitaherpavac in Russia. Since I have both HSV1 and HSV2, am planning a trip to Russia for the vaccination. I have intermediate Russian so I can manage there. I just want to know if it helped you lower the recurency rate ? Thanks a lot

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SuperManFace

I wonder if they would oblige you if you desired to get multiple treatments of this in case its dosage dependent, since most vaccines are.

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Happyhopeful

hi gang. so I emailed that Russian clinic a couple of days ago to ask about that vaccine..I've posted their response to me below. I mainly asked about the vaccines effectiveness on asymptomatic shedding/transmission since this virus really does not affect me the way it does some. Their response concerned me....to put it mildly. But I must now ask because I'm curious. Has anyone ever still given OR received HSV 2 despite being on suppressive meds????? Thanks...the clinics response to me is Good afternoon!

Thank you for your question.

Vitaherpavac helps to reduce outbreaks of herpesvirus infection.

The vaccination can't stop the virus transmission to other people. Herpesvirus is contagious only in the period, when there is eruption on the skin. If the outbreaks are not frequent, the virus doesn't need to be cured, the immunity system can fight wit it itself.

According to the Russian laws, we can't ship the vaccine abroad.

In Russia you can have the vaccination in our clinic for example. First of all you make several tests, showing the immunity system condition. Than the vaccination is made by a dermatologists after a consultation, when no contra-indication exist.

We will be glad to help you.

Kind regards,

Dr. Karina Vardanian,

Dermatologist,

M.D., Ph. D....

I of course replied this email with all my "but the literature says" stuff. and I asked about panavir. I will post that response when I hear back from them as well.

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lookingforhope

Omg, if that was the case I bet most of us wouldn't even have hsv!

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Happyhopeful

I know right! Thats what I mean. I really appreciated them getting right back to me and being honest about the fact that the vitaherpavac won't prevent transmission.... but DAMN...women can tell if they are having an outbreak on the OUTSIDE but a girlie can't ever tell she's having one on the inside unless she is taking things to prevent that possibility so that statement was pretty ridiculous to me....again...putting it mildly. Thats why I asked the question of this site's users if any of them have given or gotten hsv even when on SUPRESSIVE MEDS..

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Tin Foil Hat Abbey
hi gang. so I emailed that Russian clinic a couple of days ago to ask about that vaccine..I've posted their response to me below. I mainly asked about the vaccines effectiveness on asymptomatic shedding/transmission since this virus really does not affect me the way it does some. Their response concerned me....to put it mildly. But I must now ask because I'm curious. Has anyone ever still given OR received HSV 2 despite being on suppressive meds????? Thanks...the clinics response to me is Good afternoon!

Thank you for your question.

Vitaherpavac helps to reduce outbreaks of herpesvirus infection.

The vaccination can't stop the virus transmission to other people. Herpesvirus is contagious only in the period, when there is eruption on the skin. If the outbreaks are not frequent, the virus doesn't need to be cured, the immunity system can fight wit it itself.

According to the Russian laws, we can't ship the vaccine abroad.

In Russia you can have the vaccination in our clinic for example. First of all you make several tests, showing the immunity system condition. Than the vaccination is made by a dermatologists after a consultation, when no contra-indication exist.

We will be glad to help you.

Kind regards,

Dr. Karina Vardanian,

Dermatologist,

M.D., Ph. D....

I of course replied this email with all my "but the literature says" stuff. and I asked about panavir. I will post that response when I hear back from them as well.

[in Russian accent] Translated into English, our Vitaherpavac "vaccine" is complete bullshit. Over time, you'll have fewer and fewer outbreaks and as less often. That is your 'immune system' at work and it has nothing to do with our snakeoil, er...I mean...our Russian vaccine. But you're willing to pay us your hard-earned US dollars (that's why we seem so eager and willing to help you) and we'll gladly accept it and give you a smile and tell you it is working (when it clearly isn't) and you'll credulously believe it. We won't cure or treat your herpes, but we can guarantee you a lighter wallet.

Again, if this 'vaccine' had any validity of curing/treating herpes it would be widely reported and it isn't. Even this supposed doctor states that this vaccine doesn't cure it, nor does it help in reducing transmission to others, despite all what the 'literature' says. The effect is just the same whether or not if you took the 'vaccine' or didn't. The only difference is the size of your wallet.

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non stop guy

For me I've had a non stop o.b in my mouth for 13months.so cure/shedding maters zero to me.I just want this shit to stop tearing my mouth apart.if either of the russian meds do that.I'm in!there's a big russian church in my town.I'm going to go talk to them.see if they can call some friends back home.see if this stuff helps russian citizens.or if its a scam.what ever happened to sol from this forum.that what I would like to know!!!!!!

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helpiamconfused2
[in Russian accent] Translated into English, our Vitaherpavac "vaccine" is complete bullshit. Over time, you'll have fewer and fewer outbreaks and as less often. That is your 'immune system' at work and it has nothing to do with our snakeoil, er...I mean...our Russian vaccine. But you're willing to pay us your hard-earned US dollars (that's why we seem so eager and willing to help you) and we'll gladly accept it and give you a smile and tell you it is working (when it clearly isn't) and you'll credulously believe it. We won't cure or treat your herpes, but we can guarantee you a lighter wallet.

Again, if this 'vaccine' had any validity of curing/treating herpes it would be widely reported and it isn't. Even this supposed doctor states that this vaccine doesn't cure it, nor does it help in reducing transmission to others, despite all what the 'literature' says. The effect is just the same whether or not if you took the 'vaccine' or didn't. The only difference is the size of your wallet.

I don't recall with 100% precision Sol's posts but the vaccine wasn't very expensive. Further, if you read the 'literature' the vaccine sounds plausible and just because it hasn't been "widely reported" doesn't mean shit. It appears the vaccine ramps up one's immune system to further fight off the virus which is typical of vaccines of this sort.

Don't expect a 100% cure anytime soon. This vaccine, if memory serves me correctly, is less than $500 dollars. Ignoring travel costs, which the Russian medical system doesn't profit off of, makes this a cheap vaccine.

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McG3939
[in Russian accent] Translated into English, our Vitaherpavac "vaccine" is complete bullshit. Over time, you'll have fewer and fewer outbreaks and as less often. That is your 'immune system' at work and it has nothing to do with our snakeoil, er...I mean...our Russian vaccine. But you're willing to pay us your hard-earned US dollars (that's why we seem so eager and willing to help you) and we'll gladly accept it and give you a smile and tell you it is working (when it clearly isn't) and you'll credulously believe it. We won't cure or treat your herpes, but we can guarantee you a lighter wallet.

Again, if this 'vaccine' had any validity of curing/treating herpes it would be widely reported and it isn't. Even this supposed doctor states that this vaccine doesn't cure it, nor does it help in reducing transmission to others, despite all what the 'literature' says. The effect is just the same whether or not if you took the 'vaccine' or didn't. The only difference is the size of your wallet.

BAM. This just about sums up the last 5 pages of this stupid thread. Thank you for this dose of reality.

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non stop guy

I'm just trying to look for an answer to my nightmare.so I don't appreciate the nasty words.if you don't like the post.don't look at it.simple.and I can't say it enough.I don't give a rats ass.about shedding or a cure.zero.I have hsv1 inside my mouth non stop.I would just like it f-cken stop!most people have it already.so shedding doesn't matter in my case.I'm going to call a herpes specalist this week.and ask her what she knows about the russian meds

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Happyhopeful

Let me know what they say non stop. I reached out to the panavir folks too but I haven't heard anything back....

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Tin Foil Hat Abbey

You have the word 'Sucker' written all over your forehead. In Russian, of course!

I don't recall with 100% precision Sol's posts but the vaccine wasn't very expensive. Further, if you read the 'literature' the vaccine sounds plausible and just because it hasn't been "widely reported" doesn't mean shit. It appears the vaccine ramps up one's immune system to further fight off the virus which is typical of vaccines of this sort.

Don't expect a 100% cure anytime soon. This vaccine, if memory serves me correctly, is less than $500 dollars. Ignoring travel costs, which the Russian medical system doesn't profit off of, makes this a cheap vaccine.

> I don't recall with 100% precision Sol's posts but the vaccine wasn't very expensive.

If you're OK losing $500 on a "cheap" and ineffective vaccine (I have a bridge I can sell to you for half that cost), that doesn't even attempt to try to curtail viral transmission from one person to the next (taken directly from 'Dr'. Karina Vardanian), that's your prerogative. I'll keep my money safe from scam artists. Thank you.

> Further, if you read the 'literature'

What literature?! Some random website you found from these same people and coincidently, hasn't been independently verified by another third party on the validity of their claims. There isn't any literature that I can see that this "vaccine" or "drug", has gone through the proper channels of science-based testing or clinical trials; double-blind studies; placebos; or even compared its effectiveness by testing their product against already existing anti-viral drugs for herpes (you know, the third phase of clinical trials that you're so eager to petition the US government to get rid of).

> just because it hasn't been "widely reported" doesn't mean shit. It appears the vaccine ramps up one's immune system to further fight off the virus which is typical of vaccines of this sort.

So, nobody from the science-based community of medicine is paying any attention to this miraculous new medical breakthrough in Russia that can treat herpes. Hmmm. I wonder why that is? No independent third party testing. Check! Nor any evidence supporting claims that it 'ramps up' the bodies immune system to ward off disease. Check! No peer-reviewed scientific journal with their results published. Check! There simply isn't any corroborative evidence supporting any of these claims.

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helpiamconfused2
> I don't recall with 100% precision Sol's posts but the vaccine wasn't very expensive.

If you're OK losing $500 on a "cheap" and ineffective vaccine (I have a bridge I can sell to you for half that cost), that doesn't even attempt to try to curtail viral transmission from one person to the next (taken directly from 'Dr'. Karina Vardanian), that's your prerogative. I'll keep my money safe from scam artists. Thank you.

> Further, if you read the 'literature'

What literature?! Some random website you found from these same people and coincidently, hasn't been independently verified by another third party on the validity of their claims. There isn't any literature that I can see that this "vaccine" or "drug", has gone through the proper channels of science-based testing or clinical trials; double-blind studies; placebos; or even compared its effectiveness by testing their product against already existing anti-viral drugs for herpes (you know, the third phase of clinical trials that you're so eager to petition the US government to get rid of).

> just because it hasn't been "widely reported" doesn't mean shit. It appears the vaccine ramps up one's immune system to further fight off the virus which is typical of vaccines of this sort.

So, nobody from the science-based community of medicine is paying any attention to this miraculous new medical breakthrough in Russia that can treat herpes. Hmmm. I wonder why that is? No independent third party testing. Check! Nor any evidence supporting claims that it 'ramps up' the bodies immune system to ward off disease. Check! No peer-reviewed scientific journal with their results published. Check! There simply isn't any corrabitive evidence supporting any of these claims.

Get real... Lighter wallet? Spend a lifetime on Valtrex. Whatever your co-pay is you'll run through 500 dollars in less than 5 years.

Next, this isn't a "new" medical breakthrough. Russia, Italy, et al have had herpes treatments for decades. Just because they don't pay hundreds of millions of dollars doesn't mean it doesn't work (US clinical trial process). Also the word is "Corroborative" not "corrabitive".

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non stop guy

I'm going to tap out after this.I've tried valtrex acyclavir and famvir.I've tried combos of them.they don't do jack.I think those meds are over rated.I understand that they help for the shedding.and that's of course huge.but for o.b's there garbage.lots and lots of cash made on them however.I've been told that for the most part.there's no t.v ads for drugs in europe.

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Happyhopeful

hey Non stop I hear ya. I was sending the panavir links just to say that this drug appears to be a very old US drug....from the 1970s i think. It has had many different names probucol, lorelco, etc..but it was discontinued as a cholesterol drug because it was found to lower the good cholesterol too and caused some mild arrythmias if I read the articles correctly. However, it does seem that interest reappeared in the drug for its antiviral/antioxidant properties so it may not be a terrible idea to consider it for helping with your ongoing outbreaks? Not sure... I'm tappin out too but I pasted another blurp from some HIV research done on it in regards to the oral tablet form versus the liquid forumulation

EXAMPLE II

Six HIV-infected patients were administered daily oral doses of 10% probucol in medium chain triglyceride. A first oral dose of 0.10 grams probucol in solution was given to each patient. Subsequently, the solution was administered in total daily dosages of 0.20 grams probucol. Following the first oral dosage of 0.10 grams probucol, blood samples were taken at four, eight, twenty-four, and forty-eight hours. The average level of serum probucol for the six patients versus time for each patient is presented in the graph of FIG. 6. The average serum concentration for the group of patients is presented in FIG. 7.

Other investigators have measured serum probucol concentration after a solid, tablet form of the drug was administered to human volunteers. See, J. F. Heeg and H. Tachizawa, Plasma Levels of Probucol in Man After Single and Repeated Oral Dosages, La Nouvelle Presse Medicale, 9:2990 (1990) (discussed above and referred to hereafter as "Heeg and Tachizawa"). A plot comparing the serum probucol levels from the probucol solution of this invention with those of Heeg and Tachizawa's probucol tablet ("Lorelco") is presented in FIG. 8.

Curve A in FIG. 8 represents averaged data for the six patients in the study. Each patient took an oral dose of 1.0 ml "PANAVIR" (100 mg probucol in medium chain triglyceride). Serum samples were analyzed by high pressure chromatography, (HPLC). At four and eight hours after administration of the single oral dose, the average serum Probucol concentrations were 0.73 μg/ml and 1.34 μg/ml respectively. The data for curve B was reported in Heeg and Tachizawa, in which six male volunteers each took a single 250 mg tablet. Blood samples were collected after four hours, at which time the average drug level was found to be 0.16 μg/ml. The data presented in curve C was also reported in Heeg and Tachizawa. This time a single 250 mg uncoated tablet was given to six male volunteers one-half hour before breakfast. The Probucol concentrations for this study were presented in a semilogarithmic plot. Probucol concentrations were estimated from the chart and then averaged to provide the data points in curve C. The average probucol concentration at four hours and at eight hours was estimated to be 0.045 μg/ml and 0.051 μg/ml respectively.

Thus, four hours after administration, the blood concentration of probucol in patients given 0.10 grams of probucol in the liquid formulation was between 4.6 and 16.2 times higher than the blood concentration of probucol in patients given 0.25 grams of Lorelco. In view of the results reported by Heeg and Tachizawa, It appears that the high serum-probucol concentrations resulting from the relatively low doses of the liquid probucol formulation were quite unexpected.

Cholesterol levels of the six patient's in this study were also measured at one and four weeks. The patient's were given 0.20 grams of probucol solution daily, as described above. The graph presented in FIG. 9 summarizes the current laboratory information from five of the six HIV-infected patients in the study. Data on the sixth patient was incomplete and unverified, and therefore is not included here. The graph presented in FIG. 10 shows the average normalized cholesterol level for the five patients.

The data from the five patients shows an average 20% reduction of total cholesterol after one week and a 25% reduction after four weeks. This suggests that most of the drug effect is achieved over the first week after dosing begins, and that a plateau is approached after about four weeks.

XAMPLE III

An FDA-sanctioned phase I clinical study of the antiviral effects of probucol/medium chain triglyceride solution in HIV infected patients was conducted for nine months. This was an open-label study, without the use of placebo, and with historical controls for comparison. In the study, a 10% solution of probucol in medium chain triglyceride (Captex .RTM.355 from Karlshamns Lipid Specialties, Columbus, Ohio, USA) was administered orally to 19 patients having advanced HIV disease. On entry, the CD4 cell counts ranged from >10 to 522. The average value was 170 and the median value was 77. Many of the patients had failed prior therapy with AZT, ddI or ddC, the only currently approved antiretroviral agents, and all were ineligible for therapy with these drugs. Therapeutic failures while on these drugs are typically due to the onset of toxic side effects or to the emergence of viral resistance to the drug.

The patients were mostly males ranging in age from 30 to 55 years, and were accrued as three sequential groups who were started on daily dosages of 200-210 mg/day, 400-420 mg/day, and 800 mg/day, respectively. Each patient was examined regularly, and the results of frequent clinical examinations and laboratory tests were recorded.

On the average, blood probucol levels in these patients were higher and were achieved more quickly than in patients in other studies who were given solid forms of the drug. For example, the patients given 400-420 mg/day reached an apparent blood plateau level of 19-20 ug/ml after two weeks. To reach the same plateau level with solid probucol requires a dosage of 1000 mg/day (the dose recommended for hypercholesterolemic patients) over a period of eight to twelve weeks.

At doses of 200-800 mg/day, no significant toxicities were encountered that were attributable to probucol. Some mild toxicities--principally diarrhea and flatulence--were encountered, but these are generally expected of probucol.

The effect that the probucol liquid formulation had on the progression of the disease was followed by tabulating several parameters, the most important of which were survival rate, CD4 cells counts, p24 levels, and Quality of Life assessments. The first three of these parameters are summarized in the following table for the six patients who received 200-210 mg/day and who were on study for the longest period of time. Data for the studies at higher doses (400-420 mg/day and 800 mg/day) was available only for shorter periods of time.

__________________________________________________________________________ Dosage 200-210 mg/day MONTH MONTH MONTH MONTH MONTH MONTH ENTRY 1 2 3 4 5 6 __________________________________________________________________________ Patient ID No. 1 CD4 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 P24 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 ANTIGEN AVERAGE 91.14 88.86 86.57 86.57 87.71 87.14 87.14 SCORE Patient ID No. 2 CD4 283 339 349 284 289 246 321 P24 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 ANTIGEN AVERAGE 83.10 60.71 51.43 85.00 68.29 69.24 91.86 SCORE Patient ID No. 3 CD4 <10 <10 22 10 <10 NOT DROP- DONE PED P24 28.8 35.9 25 68 59 NOT OUT ANTIGEN DONE OF AVERAGE 48.10 46.67 41.52 50.19 37.81 28.90 STUDY SCORE Patient ID No. 4 CD4 99 55 59 48 42 44 48 P24 161 250 621 579 591 332 157 ANTIGEN AVERAGE 33.76 60.48 66.53 60.19 48.19 54.26 15.71 SCORE Patient ID No. 5 CD4 522 491 406 361 465 462 388 P24 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 ANTIGEN AVERAGE 88.86 88.86 93.57 90.71 90.29 89.57 89.57 SCORE Patient ID No. 6 CD4 77 92 72 59 48 40 38 P24 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 ANTIGEN AVERAGE 34.10 37.24 67.76 30.33 22.00 24.10 33.95 SCORE __________________________________________________________________________

No deaths occurred in this group. Some deaths did occur in the groups given higher doses, but for the most part these were not attributable to HIV progression. With an average CD4 count of 167, and one-third of the 200-210 mg/day group with CD4 counts below 10, this group of patients were advanced in the disease and were expected to have a high mortality rate. In comparison, a study with 20 patients on ddC therapy and an average CD4 count on entry of 154 reported a death rate of 25% after 12 months (Yarchoan et al., Lancet:, Jan. 16, 1988, p.76). Another study with 159 patients on AZT therapy and an estimated average CD4 count of 189 reported a death rate of 15% after one year. In the same study, 112 patients not receiving therapy and having an estimated average CD4 count of 239 experienced a death rate: of 54% after one year (Vella et al., J.A.M.A. 267, (9), 1232(1992)). Consequently, the mortality rate in this study group appears to be significantly lower than in comparable historical controls.

CD4 cell counts are subject to wide fluctuations, and the statistical significance of data from six patients during six months is weak. Nonetheless, it appears that three patients (1, 2, 3) held relatively steady in their CD4 counts, and three patients (4, 5, 6) had slow decreases. It has been estimated from prior studies that HIV infection typically results in a decline in CD4 cells at an overall rate of about 5-8 per month (Moss, Br. Med. J., 29, 1067 (1988)) although the rate varies between patients, and typically occurs at an accelerated rate in later stages of the disease as CD4 counts fall below about 400 (Miedema et al., HIV and the Immune System, R. B. Gallagher, Ed., Elsevier Trends Journals, 1991, p.89; Fauci et al., Annals of Internal Medicine, 114(8), 678 (1991)). The net rate of CD4 cell decline in this study group appears to be lower than in historical comparisons.

Increases in p24 antigen are usually associated with increases in viral load and viral replication in HIV infected patients. Such increases are most likely to occur in patients whose CD4 counts fall below about 200-300, and they generally indicate an increased probability of opportunistic infection and death (Fauci et al., Annals of Internal Medicine, 114(8), 678 (1991); MacDonell et al., Am. J. Med., 89 (6), 706 (1990)). p24 antigen levels are also subject to wide fluctuations, and have weak statistical significance in small patient groups. In this study group, however, four of the six patients did not show any transient or net increase in p24. Two patients (3, 4) showed transient increases, and only one of the patients (3) appeared to show a net increase. Viral replication therefore does not appear to have accelerated substantially in any of these patients.

A Quality of Life questionnaire, previously validated for use in HIV studies (Wachtel et al., Annals of Internal Medicine, 116, 129 (1992)) was periodically given to the patients in order to assess various aspects of their functional capacity and well-being. The overall (average) scores over the duration of the study were substantially constant for most of the patients (1, 2, 5, 6) and may have decreased for two of the patients (3, 4).

The above data shows that patients receiving the probucol formulation of this invention--particularly in doses of 200-210 mg/day--remain relatively stable, even though they were quite advanced in their HIV disease at entry and would have been expected to deteriorate substantially during the six month study period discussed.

CONCLUSION

Although the above discussion has focused on certain preferred embodiments of the present invention, some variations of the formulation and method will be apparent to those skilled in the art. For example, the probucol formulations of the present invention could be employed to treat viral infections or high cholesterol levels in a variety of mammals other than humans and rats. In addition, the formulations of this invention may, in some instances, be used to administer phenolic anitoxidants other than probucol. These and other modifications are intended to be included within the scope of the claims appended hereto.

* * * * *

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