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Herpes Cure Available to Us Already? Dr. Thorpe (Bavi) Interview

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calmcollected

wwdamron: thanks a lot for the "braniac" response. This all makes sense to me. There are just to details of your explanation that caught my attention.

1) "And also while its in latency you kill off some of the ones which are hiding in their latent form."

Is this really true? I thought the crux of the problem was that you couldn't reach the virus at all in its latent state.

2) "...if you don;t allow it to get out of latency , because once you do, then you have to start the whole process over again because the infection has replenished itself."

How can you make sure that it won't get out of latency? Isn't the idea that it will get out, and slowly be killed off? Don't you want it to keep coming out of latency until it has all be killed?

Once again, many thanks for the instruction.

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wwdamron
wwdamron: thanks a lot for the "braniac" response. This all makes sense to me. There are just to details of your explanation that caught my attention.

1) "And also while its in latency you kill off some of the ones which are hiding in their latent form."

Is this really true? I thought the crux of the problem was that you couldn't reach the virus at all in its latent state.

2) "...if you don;t allow it to get out of latency , because once you do, then you have to start the whole process over again because the infection has replenished itself."

How can you make sure that it won't get out of latency? Isn't the idea that it will get out, and slowly be killed off? Don't you want it to keep coming out of latency until it has all be killed?

Once again, many thanks for the instruction.

NOW THESE ARE MY OWN PERSONAL THEORIES, AND MAY DIFFER FROM OTHERS:

1) "And also while its in latency you kill off some of the ones which are hiding in their latent form."

Is this really true? I thought the crux of the problem was that you couldn't reach the virus at all in its latent state.

My own personal belief is that this is not 100% entirely correct, It is true the virus is hard to detect and find when its in its latent form which makes it harder to kill. But this does not mean that it is impossible, There have been studies that show people who have been on suppressive therapy for a while tend not to have an outbreak for a very long time when they stop suppressive therapy, so you could theorize that at least some of the infected latent cells were killed since it took them longer to have an outbreak, than opposed to someone who never has been on suppressive therapy.

2) "...if you don;t allow it to get out of latency , because once you do, then you have to start the whole process over again because the infection has replenished itself."

How can you make sure that it won't get out of latency? Isn't the idea that it will get out, and slowly be killed off? Don't you want it to keep coming out of latency until it has all be killed?

This leads back to the answer in your first question, I believe that even if your on suppressive therapy, the hsv virus does tend to try to come out of latency but is quickly killed off before it reachs full activation, thus killing the infected cells while its coming out of latency. In otherwords you may be having an outbreak when you are on suppressive therapy and not realize it because it is killed off very quick and doesn;t infect as many cells thus less infected cells to kill. So it does come out of latency while you are on these drugs but less often and less severe each time even unoticeably.

And how long does this take? I cannot give an answer, I do not know, maybe 12 months or 12 years, more, maybe less.

I will release my findings in a book sometime later this year and am getting ready to use myself as a human guinea pig, later this year as well for a couple months.

But I will tell you it involves both the use of supplements, immune boosting drugs and anti-virals of the most powerful variety and dosage.

NOW ALL OF THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL THEORY & SPECULATION.

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calmcollected

Once again, thanks for your reply. Now I am just playing Devil's Advocate here, but according to your theory, wouldn't it be possible that some people who had been on Valtrex suppressive therapy for several years (maybe or maybe not using other supplements as well) would have been entirely "cured"? If the virus kept coming out, getting killed right away, until there was nothing left?

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kennyd

Has anyone broke down all the supplements they are taking to see which ones work or for that matter work together. I am all for getting rid of the curse but I want to take what is nessary. Please respond.

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wwdamron
Once again, thanks for your reply. Now I am just playing Devil's Advocate here, but according to your theory, wouldn't it be possible that some people who had been on Valtrex suppressive therapy for several years (maybe or maybe not using other supplements as well) would have been entirely "cured"? If the virus kept coming out, getting killed right away, until there was nothing left?

Yes, I have read that a very small percentage of people have been cured of HSV for unexplained reasons, but I do not know of any controlled studies. I think it will take more than Valtrex alone to cure it. You will have to take very strong Anti-virals and Immune boosting drugs (not approved for HSV use but much stronger) as well as supplements unless you get very lucky, I am proposing a drug cocktail like people who have Aids take, different drugs of course, I am going to be ordering drugs that I cannot get prescribed for my study on myself. I have heard that some people have been cured of HSV by not taking anything at all. But these are extremely rare, and you would be very lucky in my opinion if you think something as weak as Valtrex is going to work completely but i believe your outbreaks will in the very least be diminished significantly if you use the Valtrex only approach for several years. Although Valtrex is about the strongest medicine approved for HSV. But in theory your idea could work.

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Artemisia

wwdamon, you have some interesting ideas and I'm looking forward to reading the results of your informal study. I was wondering something...a lot of people talk about using a topical anti-viral on the skin...how does that work for women? Those are some very sensitive tissues down there. Also, just a question...what about someone who has not had an outbreak in a several years....how contagious am I? I've had this for 25 years, and I've read that you get less contagious the long you've had it. Is that true?

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wwdamron
wwdamon, you have some interesting ideas and I'm looking forward to reading the results of your informal study. I was wondering something...a lot of people talk about using a topical anti-viral on the skin...how does that work for women? Those are some very sensitive tissues down there. Also, just a question...what about someone who has not had an outbreak in a several years....how contagious am I? I've had this for 25 years, and I've read that you get less contagious the long you've had it. Is that true?

My personal opinion:

You have basically two most common topical creams you can use, one is zovirax and the other is xerese. They both contain Aciclovir as the active ingredient, except that Xerese also contains Hydrocortisone(an anti-inflamatory), both of these medications can be used to treat almost any type of herpes infection(HSV, VZV, EBV, etc..), but are both primarily used for cold sores and are weaker than the pill form. If you are experiencing pain I would recommend taking anti-viral in the pill form along with applying an over the counter cold sore cream with Benzocaine in it. Ibuprofin and most over the counter pain medication also greatly reduces pain.

As far as contagious that is debatable, yes it is true most likely your body has built up some immunity to it over time. So I would say you are less likely to pass it on to someone else who has had it a shorter period of time, especially if you are not experiencing outbreaks as often or they are less severe, but that does not mean you will not pass it on. Eat a healthy diet, take vitamins, keep yourself in shape and excercise always helps to.

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calmcollected

wwdamron: do you believe that your method could be equally effective in people who have latent vs. active infections, and people who have long-term vs. new infections?

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hfighter

haha I miss struggle83's comments too, he is very smart !! lol his comments and sweet7's comments are sooo scientific and so good

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wwdamron
wwdamron: do you believe that your method could be equally effective in people who have latent vs. active infections, and people who have long-term vs. new infections?

I don;t know about equally, but I think it will benefit all. New infections however I think will benefit the most. Science has shown when you act upon the Hsv infection in its early stages it is less severe over time generally. Long term infections I think have had a tendency to infect more cells and spread more throughout the body and become somewhat immune to anti-viral drugs. There is an interesting article in another thread in here about new drugs that are immune resistant which will probably be one of the keys to helping the long term sufferer. I don;t think there will be much of a difference in active vs latent infected since the theory will in the least make the infection latent if you keep taking the drugs except under the most extraordinary small percentage of people and thats where you go back to the virus not being immune to the drug which you take. You want your body to develop an immune response to the virus, to where the virus cannot live. Kind of like what happens to people who contract HPV.

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HAF932
1) What does "if the latent pool of virus can not be replenished" mean? Isn't the problem that there is always that latent pool that can never be wiped out?

To answer your first question "The latent pool cannot be replenished" has something to do with the fact that we have to continously and with proper care coupled with restraint keep feeding our bodies foods that will have herpes fighting abilities. I remember once a pharmacist told me, "Stop relying on medication, your food nees to be your medecine" I kept wondering to myself how the hell do i make my food my medecine. And then i started researching..foods which fight viruses like herpes (bitter melon/ honey lemon tea/ garlic etc) are all around us including lysine rich foods (chicken/ lysine supplements). Its just up to us to stick to a certain protocol avoid unhealthy acidic foods that will help the latent pool evolve.

Yes this means avoiding all those really nice to have items like (choclate/ cake/ ice-creams/ pork/ pepperoni/ fries/ drinking etc) It is not easy at all i am trying so hard to maintain a good diet but at times even I falter and herpes immediately flourishes.

Over the last year and so that I have had herpes I used to have constant OBS big and small but it would never stop, but recently as i started eating with more awareness and setting limits on myself I noticed the virus has gotten weaker, and OBS are a whole lot smaller than before. Tingling/ itching has stopped completely sometimes but do show up when I eat "Unhealthy" ( cake/ drinking alcohol/ etc). In a way Herpes is a way to force us to live healthy and sleep well.

I have also been consistently cleaning the ob areas with zinc/ olive oil/ p 73 oil or oregenol/ collidal silver whenever i feel any kind of mild tingling or itchiness. Basically w/e i have around with herpes fighting properties.

Also i take vitamin C/E/B/D/A/echenecia supplements/lysine supplements/zinc supplements whenever i can and as often as i can. Also i exercise in moderation to keep my body fit.

This virus is defeatable and I am not going to scumb to its fury. I know i have weakened it I am not going to let my body be its play ground. I will fight it tooth and nail till the last day I live, this is a promise i have made to msyelf.

Also I am pretty sure there is a cure for it out there some where, GOD does not make everything without balance, its up to us to find it or atleast one major pharmacutical company to release it in their good nature. Either one is bound to happen sooner or later.

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accelerate the response

Not sure where people get the idea that Valtrex etc "kills" HSV, it does not. It is an "inhibitor" only, that is to say it prevents HSV from forming infectious virions by disrupting the process needed to assemble them. The main problem with it is viral mutation as the virus alters to become resistant to it.

Bavituximab is an infusion with a half life (decay to half the infused initial potency in the body) of about 8 hours. It WILL treat an outbreak, i.e. an active infection where virus has infected cells beyond the sacral ganglia because these infected cells express the protein that bavituximab binds to, thereby "revealing" the infected cells to the human immune system.

The theory runs that HSV2, which is much more virulent (reactive) than HSV 1, is activating in infected neurons almost all the time, at a very low level. A weakening of the immune system allows a wider flare-up (an outbreak). This process of activation of infected neurons is said to be part of the way the virus sustains itself. An outbreak travels down the nerves (so-called axonal transport) to the site of initial infection and is assumed to travel back up again as the infection is cleared from the skin (the epithlium). If it is comprehensively wiped-out by the body's immune system due to treatment with bavituximab "revealing" the whole infected area by attachment of the protein on the infected cell surface then the theory runs that it can not travel back up the nerve and re-infect the neuron whence it came. As outbreaks occur on evrage 4 to 6 times a year for every HSV2 genitally infected person then if each time it is treated by bav then, over time, the so-called viral load at the ganglia will fall, hopefully to the point that it ceases to be able to replicate any more due sheer lack of infected cells in the ganglia. This would most likely take several if not many treatments each time an outbreak occurred.

I suspect Bav will achieve FDA approved status relatively soon (perhaps 5 years). At that point, even if peregrine or its co psonsor from Big Pharma if there is onw byt then do not seek approval as an HSV treatment it would be possible to find a physician who will prescribe and adminster the treatment "off-label" (i.e. for another illness not actually named in the drug's FDA release). The drawback will be cost. manufacture of the drug itself and amowrtizing the R and D costs means that it will probably many thousands per treatment. That said, I would sell all I have to be rid of this Biblical curse and would pay for treatment over and over again. I suspect there are many more like me....

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accelerate the response

Not sure where people get the idea that Valtrex etc "kills" HSV, it does not. It is an "inhibitor" only, that is to say it prevents HSV from forming infectious virions by disrupting the process needed to assemble them. The main problem with it is viral mutation as the virus alters to become resistant to it.

Bavituximab is an infusion with a half life (decay to half the infused initial potency in the body) of about 8 hours. It WILL treat an outbreak, i.e. an active infection where virus has infected cells beyond the sacral ganglia because these infected cells express the protein that bavituximab binds to, thereby "revealing" the infected cells to the human immune system.

The theory runs that HSV2, which is much more virulent (reactive) than HSV 1, is activating in infected neurons almost all the time, at a very low level. A weakening of the immune system allows a wider flare-up (an outbreak). This process of activation of infected neurons is said to be part of the way the virus sustains itself. An outbreak travels down the nerves (so-called axonal transport) to the site of initial infection and is assumed to travel back up again as the infection is cleared from the skin (the epithlium). If it is comprehensively wiped-out by the body's immune system due to treatment with bavituximab "revealing" the whole infected area by attachment of the protein on the infected cell surface then the theory runs that it can not travel back up the nerve and re-infect the neuron whence it came. As outbreaks occur on average 4 to 6 times a year for every HSV2 genitally infected person, then if each time it is treated by bav the so-called viral load at the ganglia will fall, hopefully to the point that it ceases to be able to replicate any more due sheer lack of infected cells in the ganglia. This would most likely take many treatments, having one each time an outbreak occurred.

I suspect Bav will achieve FDA approved status relatively soon, (perhaps 5 years).

At that point, even if Peregrine, or its co-sponsor from Big Pharma if there is one by then, do not seek approval as an HSV treatment it would be possible to find a physician who will prescribe and adminster the treatment "off-label", (i.e. for another illness not actually named in the drug's FDA release). The drawback will be cost.

Manufacture of the drug itself and amortizing the R and D costs means that it will probably many thousands per treatment. That said, I would sell all I have to be rid of this Biblical curse and would pay for treatment over and over again. I suspect there are many more like me....

To end on a hopeful note, this means that there IS a promising treatment on the horizon in perhaps 5 years IF you can find a physician to prescribe and administer it for HSV. Money talks....

Finally, the other potential hope is the drug cidofavir as delivered by Chimerix with CMX001. The liposid delivery mechanism of CMX001 mimics natural uptake pathways, and may enable delivery of the drug in sufficient quantity to the neurons to alter their latently infected status and prevent further outbreaks. I am looking for a reference for this but am fairly sure I saw it somewhere. Will post when I find it again.

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helpiamconfused2
Not sure where people get the idea that Valtrex etc "kills" HSV, it does not. It is an "inhibitor" only, that is to say it prevents HSV from forming infectious virions by disrupting the process needed to assemble them. The main problem with it is viral mutation as the virus alters to become resistant to it.

Bavituximab is an infusion with a half life (decay to half the infused initial potency in the body) of about 8 hours. It WILL treat an outbreak, i.e. an active infection where virus has infected cells beyond the sacral ganglia because these infected cells express the protein that bavituximab binds to, thereby "revealing" the infected cells to the human immune system.

The theory runs that HSV2, which is much more virulent (reactive) than HSV 1, is activating in infected neurons almost all the time, at a very low level. A weakening of the immune system allows a wider flare-up (an outbreak). This process of activation of infected neurons is said to be part of the way the virus sustains itself. An outbreak travels down the nerves (so-called axonal transport) to the site of initial infection and is assumed to travel back up again as the infection is cleared from the skin (the epithlium). If it is comprehensively wiped-out by the body's immune system due to treatment with bavituximab "revealing" the whole infected area by attachment of the protein on the infected cell surface then the theory runs that it can not travel back up the nerve and re-infect the neuron whence it came. As outbreaks occur on average 4 to 6 times a year for every HSV2 genitally infected person, then if each time it is treated by bav the so-called viral load at the ganglia will fall, hopefully to the point that it ceases to be able to replicate any more due sheer lack of infected cells in the ganglia. This would most likely take many treatments, having one each time an outbreak occurred.

I suspect Bav will achieve FDA approved status relatively soon, (perhaps 5 years).

At that point, even if Peregrine, or its co-sponsor from Big Pharma if there is one by then, do not seek approval as an HSV treatment it would be possible to find a physician who will prescribe and adminster the treatment "off-label", (i.e. for another illness not actually named in the drug's FDA release). The drawback will be cost.

Manufacture of the drug itself and amortizing the R and D costs means that it will probably many thousands per treatment. That said, I would sell all I have to be rid of this Biblical curse and would pay for treatment over and over again. I suspect there are many more like me....

To end on a hopeful note, this means that there IS a promising treatment on the horizon in perhaps 5 years IF you can find a physician to prescribe and administer it for HSV. Money talks....

Finally, the other potential hope is the drug cidofavir as delivered by Chimerix with CMX001. The liposid delivery mechanism of CMX001 mimics natural uptake pathways, and may enable delivery of the drug in sufficient quantity to the neurons to alter their latently infected status and prevent further outbreaks. I am looking for a reference for this but am fairly sure I saw it somewhere. Will post when I find it again.

I read today that a judge somewhere in the States ruled that drug companies must reimburse patients for their costs associated with any off-label prescribed medicine... That being said, and no judicial reversals, if you have insurance here in the US AND can find a physician to prescribe then Bavi shouldn't be that expensive for us...

For people that don't have outbreaks - reading your response - how do you propose that Bavi would be used?

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calmcollected

On another thread somebody (with a science background) said that they believed (though were not sure) that the virus only reproduces when it reaches the skin. Not when it is latent. If that is in fact the case and if, in fact, Dr. Thorpe's suggestion that the latent viral pool will die out over time if it's not replenished is correct, then wouldn't it stand to reason that if you did not have an OB for several years, let's say, you would have a chance of clearing the virus from your system.

And if that were the case, then would it really matter what kind of suppressive therapy you used, i.e. antivirals, herbs, vitamins, etc? Or would the only thing that matters be the end result: that you had no ob, and thus had not given the virus a chance to replicate. Then you could choose whatever works for you, right?

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helpiamconfused2
On another thread somebody (with a science background) said that they believed (though were not sure) that the virus only reproduces when it reaches the skin. Not when it is latent. If that is in fact the case and if, in fact, Dr. Thorpe's suggestion that the latent viral pool will die out over time if it's not replenished is correct, then wouldn't it stand to reason that if you did not have an OB for several years, let's say, you would have a chance of clearing the virus from your system.

And if that were the case, then would it really matter what kind of suppressive therapy you used, i.e. antivirals, herbs, vitamins, etc? Or would the only thing that matters be the end result: that you had no ob, and thus had not given the virus a chance to replicate. Then you could choose whatever works for you, right?

Read the April 13th JAMA article on viral shedding. The way I read it people asymptomatically shed half the time that symptomatic people do. That being said, it looks like to me the virus is present even when there is no outbreak. That brings me back to the idea of George Eby in that one would have to have something on the skin all the time, or either bathe/shower in it every day for a long period of time, to keep it killed off and therefore unable to travel back to the ganglia. The way I understand it is then it would eventually die off as the parts that leave the ganglia don't return if it were killed off.

I am not very scientific though but my thoughts anyway. That makes me think Eby has something plausible and there is a product out there called http://protectedbypureworks.com/soap.htm that one might be able to wash off in that might do the trick - if it isn't too harsh. I have read where their products kill hsv1 and 2... Just an idea, but not backed by anything.

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calmcollected

But if the virus is present near the skin, does that mean that it is reproducing? Even if it is not visible?

I agree with you, however, that a topical agent probably should be part of the formula.

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peppermintpatty

Yes, viral SHEDDING, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic means the virus is replicating and shedding viral particles CAPABLE of transmitting infection.

Remember TWO factors must co-exist for transmission to occur

1. Virulence of the virus (number of active viral particles present to cause infection)

2. A suseptible host (some people are more genetically resistant to herpes, and/or are more resistant at certain times)

Now as far as applying topicals. I dont know how you could accurately gauge treating the skin in the absence of symptoms, unless you get OB's consistently in the very same spot(s).

As far as treating the skin DURING an OB or prodrome, DEFINITELY try it as long as it's a safe treatment.

By safe I mean one that wont worsen the symptons or delay healing.

HINT:

You can get the same results(reducing epithelial viral numbers) from cheap antiseptics, such as alcohol or alcohol based products, hydrogen peroxide, listerine, camphorated phenol, tea tree oil, aloe vera gels etc.

Some topicals have additional soothing or analgesic ingredients that numb the area.

Point is: don't waste your money on products that are seriously overpriced. Read the ingredients and make an informed descision.

Alot of companies are taking advantage of your fears, insecurities, and desperation to manage your outbreaks with slick advertising tricks.

GOOD LUCK

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calmcollected

Would it be accurate to say that if you are experiencing those tingling prodromal sensations that is the virus replicating? Even if no lesions turn up on the skin surface?

If so, would it follow that if you are not experiencing those sensations, the virus is probably not replicating, or replicating minimally?

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helpiamconfused2
Would it be accurate to say that if you are experiencing those tingling prodromal sensations that is the virus replicating? Even if no lesions turn up on the skin surface?

If so, would it follow that if you are not experiencing those sensations, the virus is probably not replicating, or replicating minimally?

Read the recent study. People, asymptomatic, are shedding 10% of the time which would mean the virus is replicating. Further, the amount of virus present is the same as for people who have active sores.

Assuming one could place and leave something on the skin 24/7/365 that didn't irritate the hell out of the skin and you took say indole 3, olive leaf, resveratrol and licorice to inhibit the virus, I think you could stand a chance of killing it off enough to force it to die off on it's own. I think the oral items I mention will do that... I am a little unsure on what to put on the skin daily? Would a daily shower and washing the area with Germ-X or another hand sanitizer keep the "shedding" herpes killed off???

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Herpes Awareness
Im currently bombarding my 10 week and counting outbreak with Valacyclovir, olive leaf, lysine, andrographis, beta glucan, cycloferon, isoprinosine, artesunate, echinachea, oil of oregano, tea tree oil, vitamins c, d and e, glutamine, licorice. No relief in sight--the little pimples refuse to break and the redness and papercuts are just endless. My faith in herbal supplements (and approved drugs apparently) has been shaken by this shitty disease. If anything, my outbreak has spread since adding oil of oregano. Personally, I don't think herbal remedies are the key to killing this. Sadly, Bavituximab is not an approved drug. And, like most cancer drugs, if it gets approval, this one will be prohibitively expensive, something akin to $10,000 for a course of treatment (most insurance company wont approve an off-label prescription). That being said, if it does get some kind of emergency approval for, let's say breast cancer, I will be the first person raiding my 401k for even a tiny chance to destroy this hideous virus.

You could add phyllanthus, BHT and monolaurin to that long list of putative 'natural' antivirals. And GA in a purified form. Just to add to the supplements bill. I'm taking Ecological Formulas monolaurin and VRP BHT, and occasionally VRP nutracidin (google for list of ingredients). Hard to know if it helps much, but I felt it seemed to calm down activity a bit -- at least as much as Valtrex.

Do beware of interactions and things, and GA elevates BP, but I don't think taking Vits C, D and E within normal ranges, and amino acids like glutamine can do much harm, or interact, as they are essentially foodstuffs, so the list isn't really as frighteningly long as it appears.

Drugs like AIC316 seem to be on their way, you shouldn't have to raid the 401k...

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struggle83
I still don't understand exactly what is meant by the viral pool not being able to replenish. Before I go out and spend tons of money on expensive supplements I would really love for somebody knowledge, or at least pretending to be, to thoroughly explain what Thorpe meant by his comment.

Is it just me, or did there used to be more braniacs on this site who could explain all this technical stuff? What ever happened to Struggle?

But who am I to complain, I don't even know the difference between an enzyme and a hormone...

(That's a joke by the way, look up the answer)

I am here. I am still trying to find a solution. I developed benign fasciculation syndrome and irritable bowel syndrome as a result of this infection. I am also trying all the supplements listed in this thread. I have found Source Naturals NK-3 to be most beneficial. It has helped immensely with the IBS and to a lesser degree the BFS.

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struggle83

I really don't understand what happens to the infected nerve cells. This is how HSV hides from the immune system. Surely these cells don't migrate. So these are the factories that make virions. It's the virions that migrate, I think. Drugs like Valtrex get into the nerve cells and alter the viral DNA while it replicates, neutralizing the "offspring" . I still don't know how any treatments are going to attack the virus in the infected neuron. HSV has the ability to disable cellular apoptosis so the cell can't die off. Other viruses can also do this. In fact, some viruses can turn it off, then when it needs to, it can turn it back on to release the viral particles.

I recommend the text "Viruses and Human diseases" by Strauss and Strauss.

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    • WilsoInAus
      Hey @ayekayelle I am afraid to say this is pretty typical of the first few months, a fairly high chance of rolling outbreaks. Maybe the suppressive therapy will be of assistance for a while at least. By the way just to add, was you culture properly typed? Or just assumed to be HSV-2 given location? Its 50/50 seemingly as to whether cultures are typed. Does your husband get oral cold sores?
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      Doesn't sound like HSV. You can get tested in 12 wks to be sure. Get rest 
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