Advice Needed

[george]

Hi everyone

First post here, and I need some advice..

I am a male aged 35 and I contracted Genital HSV1, about 3 years ago.

The first year I had outbreaks nearly once a month, always in the same location on my genitals.

I caught this via oral sex with an ex-girlfriend (she had it orally). I had gone out with this girl for about a year, 10 years ago. I was aware she got cold sores, so we were careful during her outbreaks but the rest of the time everything was OK. I never had a cold sore.

Then we slept together about 3 years ago & I was astounded to get a cold sore on my penis. I'm not blaming her, I just couldn't believe my bad luck -catching it during a single contact, after being OK during our year together.She appeared not to have a cold sore, but then I found out she had an outbreak soon afterwards and she was really worried about it.

Having read up about "H", I was sure I had type I, but I was confused why I was getting so many outbreaks, as supposedly T1 is weaker genitally.

I was tested and it came back Neg for Type II and positive for Type I.

After the second year, the outbreaks began to reduce to once every six months and I considering starting to date.

During this time I had one girlfriend, and I chose not to tell her. My arguement was that I had GHSV1:

• GSHV1 has very little chance of viral shedding
  
• GSHV1 is weakened due to not being at site of preference
  
• The outbreaks were reducing to once every 6 months
  
• We were using condoms
  
• People who have Oral HSV1, don't tell you about it before they kiss you...so what's the difference?
  
• I wouldn't have any sexual contact with her during an outbreak
  
• There was a between 50-80% chance she was already HSV1+ (like everyone else in the world)
  

We lasted for a few months, and she was fine.

Then last summer, I met the woman of dreams. She was a little older than me, I felt she was too good for me, I had to try my best to pull her and I thought if I told here about "H", she wouldn't want to know.

And of course I rationalised with the points above and I made the decision not to tell her.

We fell for each other big style and she is the love of my life, we spend all out time together and we have discussed marriage.

But always hanging over me was "H".

To be truthful, I put it out of mind and hoped I was "cured"

Then last week, I had my first outbreak for 8 months, what was I going to do?

I thought I could avoid sex, but she was suspicious that I didn't want to sleep with her, thinking I was seeing some one else!

So nothing for it but to tell her.......

She is an amazing woman. Obviously she was disappointed but, she has accepted it and we are deciding what to do:p .

So this is where I need the advice:

She is going to get tested for HSV1, but what is this going to mean for us?

If it comes back NEG, then my rationale was sound, and she has been safe. However she wants me to take supressant drugs and always use condoms.

So thanks to "H", I'll spending a fortune on tablets and our great sex life will have to be planned & clinical.

And why should I be treated like a leper, when if I had Oral HSV1, we would just refrain from contact during an outbreak?

If it comes back as POSITIVE, this is even worse, as I'll get the blame for giving it to her, even though she may have caught the virus years ago and shown no symptons (like between 50-80% of the world's population)

Of course we can resurrect out fantastic sex life, but I'll always be to blame for her status.

But will I? Who's to say she didn't catch this as a child and then just not shown any symptons, like the many lucky people out there?

[BrightOctober]

This is exactly why it is so important to be upfront and honest with your partner, even if it just H-I and you'll avoid sex during outbreaks.

That aside, you are right. She could very well have been carrying it dormant in her body for years and not known it, so don't beat yourself up too much. What I always try to remind people is that, if someone was to leave you for giving them herpes, then you aren't meant to be anyways. We aren't lepers, and shouldn't be treated like it.

Now, as far as her blaming you, she could very well do that because you weren't honest with her. Hopefully, she won't leave you though because if she has it, there isnt' much she can do about it but accept it. She seemed to be accepting when you did finally tell her, so I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think it will be if she does come back positive.

I wish you the best of luck. =)

[WaxedWrong]

my advice> break down your post.

and u sound so in denial.

sure u gave points as to why u never told anyone> but those points are EXACTLY why you should tell the person. and with all this research you did > you should have known that condoms dont protect you, and u still have herpes, so no matter which strain u have u still will "shed" it.

and i wonder why u have so many type 1 outbreaks >>> BECAUSE you are not taking the suppressant meds. 6 in one year is alot, and if u get that many> you should definatly be on meds, and the strongest one possible.

and sex doesnt have to be planned. you can still do all the things u used to do, but be smart about it.use protection- or if u want to have it unprotected go right ahead> and understand that ur risking yourself, at getting oral herpes.

and they have test that can determine the amount of time (give or take) that the virus has been in your system (antibodies) so if u would like to belive that u did not give it to her and she already had it> then she can get this test aswell.

[InShock]

It was really wrong of you not to tell her... if it were me, I would break up with you just for being so selfish as to put me at risk! How could you?

I have herpes and it makes me sick. I would NEVER put another human being at risk for this awful disease... much less someone I supposedly loved.

I know this site is supposed to be for education and support, so I don't mean to attack you... but I am just being honest. This is a horrible thing you have done to BOTH of these women, to put them at risk.

If she does blame you for the rest of her life, don't be surprised. She is right to blame you. I will NEVER forgive the bastard who did this to me.

[tothefuture]

Well said everyone! The reasons you give for not telling are the very reasons you should have told. You sound very conceited to me. You still think the situation YOU created is unfair FOR YOU.

[george]

Simple question?

Does everyone who gets the occaisional oral cold sore (Type 1), tell every potential partner before they kiss them?? Get real!

The girl who gave me this didn't tell me about her cold sores until she got one, I just shrugged and said, "so we don't kiss while you have one?"

About 5 years ago, I started seeing a new girl and she got a cold sore about 3 months into our relationship - again she never told me in advance....just at the time, and said we can't kiss during an outbreak

So why is it different for me?

Convential wisdom states that you don't kiss someone if you have a coldsore.

50-80% of the population are HSV1+, do you think they all tell prospective partners about their status??

Also, about shedding, if HSV1 can be spread by shedding, then 50-80% of the world's population should not be kisssing!!

According to the doctor on this site:

asymptomatic shedding of HSV-1 is rare with genital infection, and genital-genital transmission of HSV-1 is even rarer.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/messages/346.html

Thanks for the advice concerning the test that can determine the age of the infection..... if she turns out to be positive we can check, if her infection pre-dates our relationship.

[WaxedWrong]

its rare- not impossible. its also rare to have identical twins, and multipes, but people have them.

[george]

***THIS IS GEORGE'S GIRLFRIEND - ANNA****

George has told me he posted his story and I asked to see the replies.

Needless to say - when he finally told about his hsv1 status I was stunned! shocked and still am in shock that after 6 months of sex he only told me when I thought he was having an affair and challenged him about his rejections to my sexual advances.

When we first met I inisited on using condoms cos we did not know each others sexual hisory, but we soon stopped as we both preferred not to use them and I also cannot have children - this is the piont when he should have told me.

We talked very early on about getting married and I felt comfortable not using condoms cos we talked about our exs's and I never even entertained the thought that there was somthing like this waiting like a bombshell for me.

Presently, my position is this. I am in shock. I still love him. I feel devastated that my trust in him has been abused. I am worried in case I now have it. I feel worried that I may not be able to forgive him if I do have it and he did not give me the luxury of choice like he had when he contacted it without using protection ...I am in limbo until I get my results.

Plus, when he talks to me about this, I feel he tries to minimise this by saying if we both have it, it does not matter.

He does not understand, that it is not the virus as much as the deliberate with- holding of vital information that hurts me like hell! If he had told me then I could have made an informed decision. As it is he has denied me this. Our only hope is that I am not hsv1. If I am I will be so mad at the way I caught this. However I will have a test to see how long I have had it as he seems to feel confident that most people have this virus. Lets see!! Anna

[tothefuture]

Anna your thoughts and feelings about this are exactly the reason why George got the kind of responses from us as that he did. I don't know how you can trust him again or even if you'd want to. But I'm sure for some people it would be possible (not for me - I'm not forgiving). As for him minimising this, that pisses me off. Yes he's right that it's just a coldsore, but he's arrogant beyond belief to expect YOU to think 'it's just a coldsore' - everyone perceives it differently. Both me and my boyfriend have it (he gave it to me) and he sees it as just a coldsore. I don't, but I'm working on it! But my boyfriend accepts that it's still a (very) big deal for me. I truely hope you haven't got it. Not because it's the worst possible thing anyone could have or that it will ruin your life - because it isn't and it doesn't have to - but because it's a fucking nuisance and becasue you got it by deception - worst possible way to get it.

I wish you luck

[tothefuture]

Another thing Anna, just in case you don't realise - using a condom does not protect you from this virus. Some people will argue it minimises the risks etc etc but bottom line is that you can still catch it.

I've just read the bit about him thinking if you BOTH have it then it doesn't matter - just how controlling is he?

[Anna-B]

Thank you so much for your understanding reply. You appreciate what I mean, I think he is having problems seeing it from my point of view. All is up in the air at the moment because I need to get tested early next week.

Its not the virus. If he had told me and then I got it...well that would have been my risk.

I know its not what happens to you in life but how you deal with...so I suppose I am trying to keep things in perspective and deal with it step by step.

At the moment I can't deal with George's worries or guilt or denial only my own feelings. It is good to have this outlet where George can see in black and white that he should have told me!!

Thanks for your support. Anna-B

[Guest kwest]

i dont think that he really doesnt understand you... he probably understands completely, but he's scared to admit the error, cuz of how severe it could potentially be to someone.. he was already in a path of hiding it and now that its out in the open, he has to face it, and thats probably hard as hell for him..

honestly, to me it seems like he just lucked out a little bit in this and got the upper end of a shitty stick to be handed.. he has semi sound reasons why it woulda worked, but he knows he shoulda told you, just cuz he knows theres still that chance it could happen, and if you go through this, you definately feel like no one will wanna make it work unless they realise it already does... worst part is, most of us dont even have his luxury of less chance of spreading etc etc... should still use condoms if you dont have it and still dont wanna get it.. get lube or somethin.. should help, or try different brands.. i hated condoms till i found magnums...

imagine dealing with that.. i got this great dick here and i feel fucking useless to the world... i gotta turn down girls i had standing relations with due to the fact that I CANT TELL A GIRL WHO I'M SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THAT I HAVE IT EITHER.. for me i only got it over christmas break.. (always used condoms, drunk 1 night stand slipup=whole life struggle)shit is still a strange new world to me, so i'm dealin with it on my own and with my roomate, no girls...shit, i aint even tryin to look good.. i havent cut my hair in a month and i usually do it weekly, i havent shaved, i just dont wanna look good, i have no pride in my appearance now because what purpose does it serve? why put a pretty ribbon on a cobra and think its safe to play around? eventually i'll probably wanna make something happen as not havin sex or even jerkin off is driving me crazy.. i had the first wet dreams of my life during the outbreak and it hurt like whoa... i havent even ventured in the area... i'm honestly still scared as fuck of my own dick.. and thats a weird thing to have to comprehend man.. like when i sleep, i'm scared the tip of my dick is gonna roll around when i flip over and i'm gonna give myself herpes all over my legs and groin and ruin my life more... i got a purple something under the skin in my left index finger, cept it doesnt hurt so i dunno what it is, but i keep it wrapped up all the time, paranoia is destroying what little confidence i have left..

basically, this dude was wrong, he knows he was wrong in assuming you would make it work with him, but its how he made it work for himself... some people never make it work with this and live fucked up lives mad at people, he came to a couple educated guesses that helped him get back into a semi normal life... and it ALMOST worked for him, cept aint nothin normal about this shit.. so yeah.. the terms he applied to you, he had accepted as truths in order to stay sane.. just hard to say all that to someone and accept your mistakes when its on such an internal level that they come from...

dont feed him to the wolves yet.. if you and this dude are really happy together, then by all means, stay that way, cuz shit is not easy to come by when you get dealt cards like this

[Guest kwest]

oh and i'm 21, so i can only imagine what kind of rationalistions i'm gonna have to make with myself in order to maintain this 'its not that bad' mentality.. i look at anyone whos been standin where i'm at right now who is now havin sex, livin a normal life, even with this disease, as someone who's doin pretty good and on the track i wanna be on eventually.. so yeah.. dont put him in the doghouse yet..

[WaxedWrong]

"""When we first met I inisited on using condoms cos we did not know each others sexual hisory, but we soon stopped as we both preferred not to use them and I also cannot have children - this is the piont when he should have told me.

Plus, when he talks to me about this, I feel he tries to minimise this by saying if we both have it, it does not matter.

He does not understand, that it is not the virus as much as the deliberate with- holding of vital information that hurts me like hell! If he had told me then I could have made an informed decision. As it is he has denied me this.""""

can we place bets ? i have 10$ says it doesnt last.

TRUST is a MAJOR issue in relationships, he didnt tell you> what ELSE do you think we wont tell you when the time comes....

[Guest dangermouse]

George,

How the &?x! did you get an "accepted member" green card on your profile? You were SO wrong to make the decision for Anna, and the sooner you realise that the sooner you have a chance to make the relationship last. My girlfriend told me after one night together, and that was hard enough to get over. 6 months! WTF?

Please, if Anna dumps you, please tell the next girl you date. It is not your job to make decisions about her body.

[george]

OK to everyone who thinks I'm in the wrong, I'll ask the question again?

Why do I have to tell prospect partners about my status of GHSV1, but it is ok for people who have oral HSV1 not to tell?

Please be aware that Oral HSV1 is more likely to spread than GHSV1.

[WaxedWrong]

actually people who have oral, do inform their partners they do have it> maybe you got shitted w/ sleesy ass girls that didnt tell u, no wonder why you got it...

but the rest of us, who care about other people, and the people we have relationships with do tell.

and you also have a legal right to inform anyone you have any sexual contact with> you ever hear of that case where the guy went around sleeping with girl after girl after girl, and didnt tell them he had aids. well hes in jail now. and they are all alot richer. legaly ur girlfriend can sue u till ur poor in your next life if she got it from you. since u posted here about not telling her, and not telling anyone else. which just incriminated you.

[Guest dangermouse]

Why not turn the question around. If you were a woman without genital herpes, would you appreciate it if a guy like you mentioned before you slept together that he had HSV1 genitally? I think you'd be pretty rapt, actually, and delighted to be able to make the choice you wanted.

By the way, the stakes are, quite unfairly, higher for women than for men. They are more likely to get infected (more vulnerable tissue), more likely to suffer outbreaks, and more likely to have a baby!

[tothefuture]

However, I take the point.

Most people have type one. That's a fact. But how many times do people say 'I've had a coldsore'! Mmmm,.....well in my experience NEVER.

You're wrong - not to tell your POTENTIAL partner. Simple as that. But I do get your point George.

[george]

Interesting article from an MD

I have just received the results of a blood test and have been diagnosed as having herpes-1 antibodies. I guess that means I have herpes-1. Does that mean I'm contagious? Can I kiss my own children ever again? Should I tell any new prospective lovers in my life about it before I have relations with them? Could the results of the test be wrong?

G.M.

I've discussed herpes infections in past columns, but I'll take the opportunity to revisit the issue now to talk a bit more about the kinds of tests used to diagnose herpes infection and what they mean. Herpes simplex viruses (HSV) 1 and 2 cause oral and genital herpes. Most oral herpes cases are caused by HSV-1 and most genital herpes by HSV-2. Both of these viruses remain in the body forever, and in some people, they can cause periodic recurrences of symptoms. When people are first infected with oral herpes, they can be quite ill, developing multiple painful ulcers (sores) in and around the mouth. Fever and headache can also occur during the initial infection. In otherwise healthy people, recurrences of the infection result in the very common cold sore.

Worldwide, 90 percent of all people have been infected with HSV-1 and thus remain chronically (persistently) infected with the virus! In the United States, as many as two-thirds of people are infected. This does not mean that all such people have recurrent cold sores -- as many as 40 percent of chronically infected people never have any symptoms at all.

There are a few different tests for HSV-1. One test involves antibodies, proteins the body makes to fight infection. This antibody test is very accurate, and indicates whether a person is infected with the virus. A single test does not show when the infection occurred, because these antibodies persist for life. If a person has a series of tests that show that the level of antibody rises markedly over a four-week period, however, then it is assumed that the infection was very recent.

Your antibody test was positive. This means that you have been infected with HSV-1 -- just like 90 percent of the world! You have very little to worry about. Sure, you could give the virus to your family, but chances are some or all of them already have it. Even if family members are not already infected and you transmit the virus to them in the future, they are not likely to have a serious infection, and may not have any symptoms at all.

There are other tests for HSV-1. If someone has a sore that is thought to be caused by this virus, several tests can be performed. One of these is a "Tzanck smear," which involves scraping material from the base of the ulcer, placing it on a slide, treating it with a chemical stain, and examining it under a microscope. Certain changes are diagnostic for either HSV or the virus that causes shingles and chickenpox. There is also a rapid test called a direct fluorescent antibody test that can tell within minutes if HSV-1 is present. Finding HSV-1 in a culture grown from a swabbing of the ulcer also conclusively identifies lesions caused by HSV-1, although this process takes a few days. In most cases, however, the diagnosis of herpes can be made clinically, without tests, based on the patient's physical signs and symptoms. Distinguishing HSV-1 from HSV-2 cannot be done clinically -- diagnostic tests are needed to tell the two infections apart -- but is not that important anyway, as treatment is the same for both viruses.

http://health.ivillage.com/gynostds/gherpes/0,,6x33,00.html

[WaxedWrong]

what the hell does that have to do with u NEVER telling ur gf that u have herpes.

MMMMMmmmmmmm?

[tohealth]

OK to everyone who thinks I'm in the wrong, I'll ask the question again?

Why do I have to tell prospect partners about my status of GHSV1, but it is ok for people who have oral HSV1 not to tell?

Please be aware that Oral HSV1 is more likely to spread than GHSV1.

I understand your question, but the difference is: the vagina is not the mouth.

(1) It has far more discomfort from a herpes infection than does your mouth.

(2) It has far more mucus membrane surface area than does your mouth (can an 8 pound baby slide out of a woman's mouth?), and therefore can be saturated with far more HSV blisters at any time than your mouth ever can.

(3)Furthermore, it is physically impossible for a female to see the inside of her own vagina, let alone all the way up to the cervix to even apply medication, whereas in your mouth or on your mouth it is pretty easy to find the problem area and treat it.

(4) A female having blisters in the mouth does not put her at risk for getting AIDS or other STDs the way that having them vaginally does.

(5) The strain of HSV-1 that she may have already, may not be the same as what HSV-1 you carry (viruses are always evolving), so it may well behave like a totally new infection in her.

There really is no comparison. If you had a choice between having uncomfortable blisters on/in your mouth or on your penis, would you not care which? Would it be a toss up?

[tohealth]

...plus, with a bit of make up, a female might be able to hide a mouth blister and not be terribly inconvenienced. But a genital one can (a) make her wear different clothes entirely from what she would prefer to wear---no thongs, therefore no nice pants or business skirts; no tight jeans; ( refrain from certain otherwise enjoyable activity---like riding the bike at the gym (seat friction)....i.e., genital HSV can be lifestyle altering more than oral even if "only" HSV-1 which again, may not be what she either already has or the strain of whatever she already has...

[tothefuture]

You're on very dodgy ground George if you're STILL trying to convince everyone - including yourself - that it was OK not to tell. Given that Anna has said YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD HER, that should be good enough. I totally take your point, for me, there's no difference between type 1 or 2, regardless of where it's located. And in fact, there's been a couple of occassions when I've seen someone with a really horrible coldsore (oral) and thought, well at least no-one can see mine!!! But then, my OBs are very mild and I don't intend to have children. This means something different to everyone, and that's why you were wrong not to tell Anna.

[Anna-B]

'George' is finally beginning to see how devastated this has, and is continuing to make me feel. However, that is because deep down he really knows he has to face up to this.

Presently I have had a test, the results are very confusing.

Where we live, -a back water in Spain -, they test for both l & ll together.(its an lgG test)

The results came back postive but are infuriatingly not able to say whether the postive is for l or ll or both!! what a waste of time that was!...it has only served to stress me out even more!

But according to 'George' this is what happend to him initially. I am now going back somewhere else to get a definitive analyis.

I am now (I think) out of shock, have progressed through anger, but am very tearful today.

I think this is what will happen...if I am postive hsv1 and I have it from 'George' I am considering taking leagal advice. I dont know if this is knee jerk reaction or if I will go through with it. But it helps me get through this. I am not the revenge type but feel this is more about being conned, tricked duped...whatever the correct term I am searching for is.

Who else has he slept with and not told,? what about the other woman before me? what about future women?

This is the crux of the matter 'George'

and Waxed wrong nails this - what else has he not told me - TRUST - MINE HAS BEEN SHATTERED.

At other times I try to consider what George tells me, that 50 - 80% of people carry anti- bodies and that as I had shingles 6 years ago - maybe that is why I am carrying a positve result. Or maybe, as I dont have any symptons at present, I am one of those people who has had a cold sore virus as a child and that is where my positve comes from.

I am, as is clearly patent, very confused. and still waiting for a decent medical diagnosis. The waiting is agony, can anybody throw any light on these points above that 'George' raises evey time I get upset.

Thank you once more for your kind support.

PS. It is clearly time we in the UK start to have blood tests as a norm when we start a new relationship. Also I do not know where the law stands in Spain on this kind of thing. Back in the UK it is clased as GBH (grevious bodily harm and carries a 5 year prison sentance).