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Moira

Failure to disclose and needing advice on something unrelated to herpes

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Moira

Hello everyone. This is my first post here and I'm hoping to get some feedback on a situation I got myself into. First a little background: I tested positive for hsv2 6 years ago. I didn't get a break out. I was in a new relationship and we decided to be monogamous and not use condoms. Thus, we both went in and got screened for stds. My hsv2 test came back positive. My now ex accepted the news and we stayed together and had unprotected sex for the rest of our relationship. We were togther almost 5 years. About two years into the relationship he went in for a routine physical and requested a herpes test. He tested negative despite over two years of unprotected sex with me. Anyway, that relationship eventually ended. Fast forward to today.

I still have never had an outbreak. I get a Rx for valtrex at my annual exams and fill it yearly to have it on hand just in case.

So, I met a guy and on our second date we had sex. We used a condom. His penis didn't come near my genital area without a condom. I gave him oral. No condom was used for that. Three weeks into the relationship he discovered the valtrex in my bathroom and flipped out because I had not told him I had tested + for herpes. Understandable BUT I honestly forgot. I never had an outbreak and I never take that medicine. He reminded that he mentioned on our first date stds. We were in the car, I was driving, and it just did not occur to me to say anything about it. The day he found the valtrex he broke up with me. We have other isssues regarding our relationship. I'm 37 and he's 24. That day he brought up the age gap, said we were not going anywhere long term anyway, and that he didn't want to waste my time. I wholeheartedly agreed. I apologized for not telling him about having herpes and he left.

Two days later he called and I didn't answer. He texted and I told him I would talk to him after Christmas. I really had no desire to talk to him ever again. The Fri after xmas he texted wanting to go out but I had plans already. Then Sat he texted and asked if he could come over Sunday. I agreed even though after the third time he was over at my apt he was car-less and everytime after that I picked him up and dropped him off. But I'll get back that.

He came over and and gave me this weepy speech about how he thinks he has herpes. Now I know there is a slight chance that the virus could have been transmitted but I just don't think he's that unlucky. I have never had a bo, my ex whom I slept with A LOT never contracted it from me, and this current man (the 24yo) and I were VERY careful using condoms. I am trying to be patient but I am getting very indignant about the situation. This is the synopsis of our brief relationship:

1. Some time after our third date (week 1) he got stopped by the cops for running a stop sign. Turns out he doesn't even had a DL and was driving his mother's uninsured car.

2. For weeks 2 and 3 every time we went out or he came over to my apt I picked him up and dropped him up off back home. Twice I left work because the evening before he wasnt ready to go home so he slept over and I left work to collect him, take him home, and return to work. He doesn't live close either. Also, he never once offered me money for gas.

3. I paid for EVERY meal we had. Can we say sugar momma?

4. While he was here when I was at work I shared my Netflix password with him so he could stay in bed and watch Netflix. I also shared my hbo go pw with him so he could specifically watch a specific series that was on hbo go.

5. Once before the breakup I went to go pick him up to come over and he called me asking me to pull over and WAIT because he mother was outside cleaning her car and he didn't want her to see me. I waited 25 minutes.

6. He lives with his mother.

7. He doesn't have a job.

8. He not in school nor does he have a college degree.

So, when he broke things off I was relieved because I had planned on breaking it off but I was going to wait until after the holiday. He beat me to it after finding the Valtrex and I was relieved.

Back to the "weepy speech" that came after the break up and after the holiday. He told me he never broke up with me and that he just wanted to clearly discuss the issues that came with an age gap relationship. I said I was glad he brought it up and he was right it's not as if we will be something long term so it's best we just end it NOW rather than later. He could not or would not understand my logic behind that. I told him I didn't want to be romatically involved with him anymore. He said he felt betrayed and hurt. yes, I felt guilty. I still do but what can I do?

Yes, I know I messed up by not telling him before we had sex (despite it being protected) that I have herpes but he is guilt tripping me something fierce. I asked him if he is so terrified that he might have herpes because of some "bumps" he got on his penis (he said he was itchy and looked like dry skin...no blsiters) why he didn't go to a clinic. he said he didn't have money. Grrrr. I feel like this guy is doing what he can so I do not cut him out of my life completely. I told him if he does not go get tested by Jan 18 that I will take off of work, go get him and pay for the test myself.

Oh, and yesterday I changed my pws for netflix and hbo go. He called and asked about the netflix. I told him I changed both the netflix and hbo go pws. He acted like changing the pws was incredulous. And he said I was mean. Why should I allow ANYONE to use services for I pay? I asked him this: So, I'm mean because I won't let you indefinitely mooch off of services that I pay for? He didn't get it and said about three times: well, it's not like it hurts you for me to use them.

So, given the story this is what I'd like advice about. Now I want to just block him from calling, texting, and emailing. Before yesterday I felt like a very $hitty person not telling him (actually, I still do) and wanted to keep the lines of communication open with him just in case he contracted it. But after giving some thought to all the details, I don't want to talk to him at all anymore. I think he's dragging this out and using herpes as an excuse to keep dragging it out.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

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foolinmymirror

Wow...alot to take in! Plain and simple, he needs to get tested. I can understand your 'committment' to him, wanting to make sure he's 'ok' and all. Nobody want's to give anyone anything. On that side of the story, I can see you're predicament.

Now on the other side...he does sound like a total mooch!! So, the decision to keep the lines open pertaining soley on whether he now has H or not is gona be your call....but, on the relationship side, it seems clear by your description that you know you can do better. Wish you good luck!!!

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NearNew

In my opinion this guy is a dead beat. Why would you even consider having contact with him. Tell him to get off his arse and go get a job and get tested. Even if he does have HSV you can't be sure that you gave it to him.

True it was inconsiderate to not disclose but that doesn't mean you owe him anything.

Take out the HSV in this story and decide what you would do.

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GntiNh

Hi. I would ask if you haven't had any breakouts whether you should get tested again. I'm not trying to give false hope but it has been known for mix ups at the labs; incorrect reading of results etc.

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RealisticGal
Hi. I would ask if you haven't had any breakouts whether you should get tested again. I'm not trying to give false hope but it has been known for mix ups at the labs; incorrect reading of results etc.

That is the first thing I am going to address as well.

Since you have never had an outbreak, I really believe there is reason to take another look at your test results.

I know it has been 6 years, so you may not recall your exact results numbers or have them available. If by chance you do, or can get them from your doctor's medical records, what were your numeric values? And also, do you know what test kit was used?

Here's the important bit of info: The most commonly used test kit in the USA (Herpeselect ELISA) has a problem with the published reference range values.

The "positive" range for this test, as published, starts at 1.10.

However, based on studies done by expert HSV researchers, any value below 3.5 is considered suspect as a possible "FALSE POSITIVE." This is especially likely in those with no known history of symptoms (like Moira).

If you can't get access to your old test results, I would definitely suggest getting a new test done.

Now, Moira, about this guy...

Holy crap on a cracker!

If you read that story, what would you think? Read it objectively. Just read what you wrote as though it were written about someone else. I think that will give you your answer.

:wavey:

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Moira

Thanks for the replies. See, I'm a little torn between what foolinmymirror said about wanting to make sure he is "ok" and what NearNew said. I am definitely taking the advice of GnitNh and RG. I intend to go get tested again just to be sure. No false hopes, though. Part of me wants to just block him and not wait. Would that make me an awful person? I feel like I'm being manipulated or he's TRYING to manipulate me by using the situation. Take herpes out of the picture and I definitely would have already ceased contact with him. That's a no brainer.

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foolinmymirror

Well, my 2-cents on making sure he's ok really does hinge on your results now. I think it really is human nature to feel an obligation to care for someone we 'think we've done something to'...def hear you on that! But it also shouldn't be abused!!

Get you're clear results to be sure...but either wat this kid is a bit immature and doesn't respect you, by his actions. Good Luck!

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gnaf119

Does not sound like he has any symptoms. Good on you for paying for him to get tested.

I would still take the valtrex/acyclovir daily for suppression purposes since it dramatically reduces virus shedding, FYI. Which of course can happen asymptomatically.

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Iridewheelies

So Moira. Do you wanna like catch a movie or something??? I have a job, and a car. And my own netflix

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Moira

Haha! And Netflix is so cheap, too. Can't believe he rather whine about not being allowed to mooch off of my account rather than just set up his OWN Netflix account.

Anyway, I've had a raging cold that began Saturday morning. Today is day three of slight fever and very painful coughing. It feels like the inside lining of my upper trachea is shredded and raw. When a coughing fit hits, it's the most painful coughing I have ever experienced. I don't think it's the flu so I'm going to get a flu shot today. I would hate to get the flu right after this cold. I heard on the radio that 47 states are in a state of emergency because of flu outbreaks. Yikes! So, I'm going to wait until I'm feeling well before I go in and get tested.

I guess I'm still going to go get HIM Monday and take him somewhere to get tested and pay for it. What a GD hassle. This is what I get. I cannot wait to put this crap behind me. Lesson definitely learned. Heck, several lessons learned!

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NearNew

Moira, If I wasn't on the other side of the earth I too would be looking for your phone number.

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RealisticGal
Does not sound like he has any symptoms. Good on you for paying for him to get tested.

Yeah, good for you for paying for testing, Moira. Then he will have no excuse not to get tested, and you can be well and finally done with his mooching slacker ass.

I would still take the valtrex/acyclovir daily for suppression purposes since it dramatically reduces virus shedding, FYI. Which of course can happen asymptomatically.

Moira ---

I would only suggest suppressive therapy if you get retested and come back positive for sure.

All medications have potential side affects. Why risk side affects to treat something you don't even have?

Now, what if you do get a clearly positive test result?

In that case --- unless you are in an intimate relationship at the time, I see no reason to take daily suppressive antivirals if you aren't having any symptoms.

:itsme:

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gnaf119

Yeah, good for you for paying for testing, Moira. Then he will have no excuse not to get tested, and you can be well and finally done with his mooching slacker ass.

Moira ---

I would only suggest suppressive therapy if you get retested and come back positive for sure.

All medications have potential side affects. Why risk side affects to treat something you don't even have?

Now, what if you do get a clearly positive test result?

In that case --- unless you are in an intimate relationship at the time, I see no reason to take daily suppressive antivirals if you aren't having any symptoms.

:itsme:

But anti-virals dramatically reduce shedding and thus transmission.

If someone is having casual sex throughout the year (or at least open to it happening), I think it's a great idea ethically.

No?

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RealisticGal
But anti-virals dramatically reduce shedding and thus transmission.

If someone is having casual sex throughout the year (or at least open to it happening), I think it's a great idea ethically.

No?

I think you are missing a rather important piece of information in this thread, gnaf119.

There is a possibility that Moira doesn't have HSV at all.

If repeat testing shows that she does not, would you still suggest she expose herself to the risk of side affects by taking antiviral medications?

:laugh:

This is a completely different situation from a person who definitely has HSV and plans to indulge in casual sex. In that case, it would be protective for both her potential partners as well as herself.

When I specified that it only applied if she was not in an intimate relationship, that was meant to imply she also would not be running around having casual hookups.

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RealisticGal
Okay, cool, yeah, I thought she said she had it.

The confusion is understandable. Her initial posts says she tested positive for HSV2 via serology 6 years ago. The thing is, she has never had any symptoms.

A couple of us have urged her to try to find out her original test values, and/or retest, since it is possible she got a "false positive" on that test 6 years ago. Especially possible if the test kit used was Herpeselect ELISA, since the published index values for that kit are skewed.

As far as I am concerned, Moira's HSV status is very questionable at this point.

;)

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Moira

I was not in a habit of taking the prescribed antiviral on a daily basis because my doctor did not give me instructions to do so. She said to take them if I felt anything unusual or out of the ordinary in that area. Despite me not taking them at all, my ex did not contract H. After that relationship, I wasn't sexually active until this unexpected and regretable "fling". I'm not usually open to casual sex because it's not at all gratifying. I went against that last month. Not only did this experience confirm how ungratifying casual sex is to me, but now I have opened my eyes to a new reason for me not to engage in that behavior. I'm not holding my breath for a negative test result when I do get re-tested. Oh, and I have no idea where the record of the first test is so I definitely don't know what test was used. I'll find out those details the second time around.

Thankfully, he has not been bothering me, hence, so far, I have no need to block him. The city in which I live has a county run STD clinic. That's where we will be going this Monday if he informs me that he failed to go get tested this week.

Vent time: what bugs me is not so much paying for his test. Chalking up that fee is easy. What gets to me is I also have to drive to pick him up, take him to the clinic, take him back home THEN when the results are on play taxi cab again. :madd:

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Moira

Update: I called him Friday to find out if he got the H specific blood test done. He told me that he had it done last Tuesday. I asked him how much was the test because I did say I'd pay for it. He said that he didn't have to pay "yet". That's weird because I've always had to take care of the bill at any clinic that same day. Anyway, he texted today that he got the results and his test is negative. Big surprise there. I replied: thank you so much for letting me know. That was about two hours ago. He still has not told me the cost and I'm not asking again. So, I just now blocked him. I know I'm going back on my word about paying for the test but he just won't come out and let me know the fee and I'm not waiting anymore to cut him off. Besides, I paid for all the food he ate while he assed up in my apt, SERVED him, burned up my gasoline picking him up and dropping him off, and allowed him access to my paid online services. Heck. I even paid for the contraceptives. What on earth was I thinking? I feel so embarrassed that within three weeks I let things get that far with someone like him.

Oh and when we spoke Friday on the phone he actually thought that I was still going to take him to the museum. Whhhhaaattt???!! Crazy.

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RealisticGal
Update: I called him Friday to find out if he got the H specific blood test done. He told me that he had it done last Tuesday. I asked him how much was the test because I did say I'd pay for it. He said that he didn't have to pay "yet". That's weird because I've always had to take care of the bill at any clinic that same day. Anyway, he texted today that he got the results and his test is negative. Big surprise there. I replied: thank you so much for letting me know. That was about two hours ago. He still has not told me the cost and I'm not asking again. So, I just now blocked him. I know I'm going back on my word about paying for the test but he just won't come out and let me know the fee and I'm not waiting anymore to cut him off. Besides, I paid for all the food he ate while he assed up in my apt, SERVED him, burned up my gasoline picking him up and dropping him off, and allowed him access to my paid online services. Heck. I even paid for the contraceptives. What on earth was I thinking? I feel so embarrassed that within three weeks I let things get that far with someone like him.

Oh and when we spoke Friday on the phone he actually thought that I was still going to take him to the museum. Whhhhaaattt???!! Crazy.

Live and learn, ya know?

I think you are going to start feeling a lot better, having put this guy in your rear view mirror, Moira.

:wavey:

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RealisticGal

Hey, Moira ---

Just wondering if you are still around, and whether or not you ever got any clarification about your status. :hmmmm2:

Did you find out the info about your previous testing (what kit was used and the numeric values of the results)?

:wavey:

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Moira
Hey, Moira ---

Just wondering if you are still around, and whether or not you ever got any clarification about your status. :hmmmm2:

Did you find out the info about your previous testing (what kit was used and the numeric values of the results)?

:wavey:

Bump

No. From January until May I'm working 8am-9pm Mon-Thur. 8am-5pm Fri. And occasionally 9-12 Saturday mornings. When work ebbs after May Ill make it a priority to get tested. Actually, my annual is in June. So, I intend to get retested in June. I'm dating a new man now so if I think we might become exclusive Ill get retested before June and before we are intimate.

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