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musumegirl

Uncircumsized penis & ghsv-1

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musumegirl

I thought I would share this experience to help others. My background: I have had ghsv-1 for 5 years. My symptoms have been extremely mild, with 4 OBs in the first year. The OBs consisted of 4-5 papercut looking things and cleared up within a week. I was symptom free until about 6 months ago with a very mild 4 day OB - it looked like a mosquito bite on my butt.

I had a big break up and recently started dating someone. We became intimate after informing him of my status (see, it does happen). He was the first man I've been with who was not circumsized. He/We opted to stop using condoms rather frequently and after a while things ended.

I've been informed he's contracted it from me. I have to admit I was pretty shocked since none of my partners have ever gotten it from me. My boyfriend of 3 years didn't even get it from me and we stopped using condoms after a year since I got on the pill.

So, my theory/point is, its pretty obvious men who are uncircumsized can contract hsv much easier - even ghsv1 which is considered "mild."

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Acesheart

With all due respect id ask him what his igg numerical values were. If he never previously tested then he could have had h1 from receiving oral sex, prior to your intimacies. Many dont test bbut yet they are the first to say you gave me h. The h type you have makes it even harder to pass and being a female its even harder. Ask to see his test. If he wont produce these then he may not be truthful.

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musumegirl

He was tested right when we got together and tested negative for both 1 and 2. One week after we had unprotected sex, he had a mild outbreak. He was too scared to get tested at that moment but responded very well to the acyclovir I gave him. He got tested right when we stopped dating and his results were positive for hsv1. I am the only partner he was with since his test that came back negative.

My point with this post was to share that uncircumcised men are MUCH more prone to any infections period (regardless of how “bad” your infection is or how “long” it’s been since an OB). And, that despite having ghsv1, which is very mild, that you still CAN transmit it to others. It’s a caution to be aware and informed. This blanket statement that ghsv1 is practically impossible to transmit is kind of a false statement.

It’s a bit tedious to go over every single detail of ones’ condition, testing, partner background, etc for every single post we make. It seems that the first go to on this forum now is doubting testing of oneself or a partner-and spot potential liars. Sometimes the reality is: you did get it from X or gave to X. Plain and simple.

I’ve been on this forum for 5 years and it really was crucial in helping me overcome the emotional distress of H and educate me on the science of the condition. I am so grateful for this online community.

I’ve been noticing a theme here where folks are really set on “proving” how you got it or how you gave it, everyone is a potential liar, etc. I think it’s pretty accurate to say that proving anything with H is challenging. The average person doesn’t go around recording their IGG’s and rarely do folks even get tested for HSV (it’s just the way the system is, doesn’t mean they’re a liar or irresponsible). And frankly, it’s pretty ridiculous to expect anyone who doesn’t have H to know these specifics. Now, you can take the argument of “well it’s our job to educate” but at the same time, it’s kind of overzealous because the underlying/subconscious goal is to relieve oneself of any potential guilt.

It appears as though the focus on here is to infuse doubt into how you gave it, got it, etcetera. Rather than just accepting the reality of H: nothing is 100% and posting back and forth on proving this or doubting that to just accept things as they are.

P.S. I was not offended, just making observations on something I’ve seen on here for the past year or so.

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Acesheart

It's not about proving someone has lied. I've talked with tons of married couples who thought they had tested properly only to later learn that was NOT the case. It can be a struggle when we TEST only to later learn it was not included on the test they had received. Then that partner wants to accuse the husband or wife of infidelities which have Never happened. Once the infected partner finds out there is a possibility they could have had the virus , which testing was NOT properly done, they began to seek closure on the thoughts of he/she cheated and this marriage isn't over. Most anything can be worked out if the couple doesn't play the blame game and seeks proper testing with an IGG HERPESELECT BLOOD test. It kills me when someone doesn't investigate every aspect and just assumes because their partner/spouse told them "you gave me this" that they really did transfer their h when in fact the evidence-based test that was performed was NOT an accurate test.

I've talked with women married longer then me saying I cannot come back from his infidelities, when in fact their own test was flawed. No one should have to wonder if the person they married strayed, when the evidence points to lack of proper testing. That was my only point and never to accuse anyone of lieing about their status, or what test was used, just to ask "has that person tested previously", it would shock you how thought/believed they had when in fact they had not. It's sad. It can be avoided. Just that simple.

Someone should Not have to just accept they transferred their herpes JUST because their spouse/partner says they did. Just my opinion.

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Acesheart

Also what proof do we have to state men who are uncircumcised will more likely get herpes, any type, over men who are circumcised? Just curious.

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musumegirl

First off, my post made no implications of marriage or cheating accusations. Again, simply illustrating that even though people here sell ghsv1 as "nothing to worry about" on some level, untrue. Again, you're supporting my observation of this avoidance of guilt or that yes, maybe in fact, you did give it to X or got it from X. A key aspect of having this condition is owning the risks associated with sex.

And see my references below to support the theory that men who are uncircumcised are more at risk for acquiring infections-whether STI, bacterial or due to uncleanliness.

http://www.webmd.com/men/news/20090325/circumcision-cuts-stds

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/26/healthmag.circumcision.hpv.herpes/

http://www.circinfo.net/sexually_transmitted_infections.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12916131

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Acesheart

I disagree we are both talking about ghsv be it type 1 or 2 . And this statement about guilt is what some use against the other to gain access out of a marriage or relationship. This is an issue we may never see eye to eye on but it does exist and needed clarification. I've heard seen many use their own hsv positive infection against another, when in fact the person had had the virus themselves but due to inaccurate test performed they played the blame game. It's really heartbreaking and unless you hear it , see it or live it, you cannot possibly understand what I am trying to convey.

No you didn't mention marriage, infidelities or adultery, but this needed clarification for all the guest who may come by and read your post.

I absolutely agree, genital herpes no matter what type, is and be be devastating to anyone who NOW has it, had it or who is entering a relationship with someone who has it or has never tested but says "I'm clean, it must have come from you". Again no-one can say they are Clear if they have never properly tested. If they don't know their sexual health status how can they be sure to blame the other person. When you are married there should be no guilt, but since we know what holds true in my day , for better or worse, does NOT always apply these days. Loving any human should be unconstitutional, but it isn't always someone's reality.

Thank you for these links it is important to provide SUPPORT for statements made about such an issue. I've actually haven't heard anyone mentioning this before and therefore I am very curious to read. These links are wonderful , so thank you for providing them. I look forward to reading on them. Thank you for doing the work to help us learn on this issue. I hope to read soon.

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musumegirl

Well, I was actually only talking about ghsv1 and you decided to loop the other one in. I wrote my post to speak specifically about a very certain situation: ghsv1 and uncircumcised penis'.

I don't know why this has digressed to marriage, cheating, all this other stuff. Sounds like those comments are meant for dating and relationships and I am in the spreading and preventing section. Like I said, again, I was sharing my experience of passing it on to someone and to be cautious of ghsv1 infections and this idea that you can't pass it as a female to male.

My comments on the observations about this forum you are validating. This perpetuating fear of guilt and blame. My post had nothing to do with any of that. Again, I will reiterate: yes, you can spread ghsv-1 as a female to a male and it appears that its more likely to occur with an uncircumcised man while not using condoms. I am debunking the myth that its almost impossible to occur, because it can.

Also, I am pretty surprised as one of the most active posters on here you aren't aware that uncut men have a higher instance of infections period. So glad to hear you are educating yourself.

If you feel the need to go back and forth on this, please refrain from doing so on this thread and PM me. Otherwise, I would like to leave thethread for those who want to ask about being ghsv1 pos and having sex with uncut men or vice versa.

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WilsoInAus

museumgirl, I hope we can PM you on particular issues. I hope you appreciate that our intentions are basically the right ones, even if execution is a little clumsy and just plain human at times.

One thing I do notice is that a lot of people, myself included, come to the forum thinking that we are part of the solution but actually we are not. It takes a lot of reflection and thought. Inadvertently at times this forum does a lot more to encourage and raise the stigma around HSV owing to people:

- thinking they have HSV when they don't

- thinking they have transmitted and that transmission rates are extreme when they haven't

- attributing all sorts of symptoms to HSV that aren't related

- trying to identify the source of their HSV, terming them 'givers' as though this is some sort of crime

- perpetuating that HSV is some form of rampant pandemic and infection rates are increasing

Of course I could go on. Hence it is not too unreasonable to have the appropriate colour to the discussion given the amount of quite wild comments that are often made on this forum.

In your situation I think you are suggesting that your partner did not test positive through a swab to a genital condition but through blood. As HSV-1 testing misses 1 in 10 infections (and often the wrong test is applied) it is still not conclusive that your former partner definitely was infected with HSV-1 genitally by you as opposed to being infected previously though oral sex for example or not actually have a genital infection in favour of an oral one. I agree though there is a big chance you have infected him genitally with HSV-1, but these other possibilities are just that.

This is not about discovering liars as you suggest, but about the facts and conclusions based on these facts as well as the uncertainties that surround any of our conclusions.

Hence I am sorry if it seems tedious, but it is important for the informed reader to understand the situation fully before simply accepting what you suggest may be true.

On the topic of circumcision, I'm not aware of comprehensive analysis of this observation. Personally though I would agree with the observation. Without putting too fine a point on it, populations with higher incidence of circumcision tend to have lower incidence of genital herpes. It could be though that the correlation with DNA/racial aspects is the stronger correlation. Caucasian males for example have a lower incidence of genital infection, circumcised or uncircumcised.

I do think though that an observation of one that you raise is not enough to reach the conclusion you have raised. It does not mean that the virus is easier to transmit than is inferred by others. Remember that half or more of married couples where one has oral HSV-1 go their whole sexual lives without transmitting thus inferring annual transmission rates below 2%.

You also suggest that comments made at time are about alleviating guilt around transmission. This is simply not so because there is nothing at all to feel guilty about in the first instance. The most common transmission of herpes is from a loving mother to her precious baby. How can it possibly be suggested that guilt be contemplated?

The reason why doubt should be infused is because the doubt exists. Moreover it is intended to demonstrate that anyone can have herpes and transmit it and doing so does not make one deserving of feeling guilt. I find the term 'my giver' quite abhorrent as it infers they have done something wrong and deserving of single focus by a person as the giver as being irresponsible, dirty, a cheat, a liar, unworthy, evil etc. This may be the case, but not because of their HSV status. I think it is best for someone with herpes not to have a focus on a 'giver' but acknowledge that it is a communal issue.

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Acesheart
Well, I was actually only talking about ghsv1 and you decided to loop the other one in. I wrote my post to speak specifically about a very certain situation: ghsv1 and uncircumcised penis'.

I don't know why this has digressed to marriage, cheating, all this other stuff. Sounds like those comments are meant for dating and relationships and I am in the spreading and preventing section. Like I said, again, I was sharing my experience of passing it on to someone and to be cautious of ghsv1 infections and this idea that you can't pass it as a female to male.

My comments on the observations about this forum you are validating. This perpetuating fear of guilt and blame. My post had nothing to do with any of that. Again, I will reiterate: yes, you can spread ghsv-1 as a female to a male and it appears that its more likely to occur with an uncircumcised man while not using condoms. I am debunking the myth that its almost impossible to occur, because it can.

Also, I am pretty surprised as one of the most active posters on here you aren't aware that uncut men have a higher instance of infections period. So glad to hear you are educating yourself.

If you feel the need to go back and forth on this, please refrain from doing so on this thread and PM me. Otherwise, I would like to leave thethread for those who want to ask about being ghsv1 pos and having sex with uncut men or vice versa.

You don't sound very supportive. No one claimed transference between hsv1 to another was NOT possible. Also you are not being very supportive in educating me or anyone on this finding of cut or uncut men. No, absolutely no one has EVER mentioned such an issue, go figure. The shady way you attacked my knowledge or lack of seems petty. I merely added scenarios to what you've experienced. Why would that offend anyone?

I'm here for support for those who ask, obviously you did not, but I've received a few messages in regards to this particular thread, so see I've helped someone who liked my opinion.

No need for me to message you since you have provided those links.. I wasn't trying to insult you but backing this statement is important enough for two other users here to ask questions like I did. Sorry if you took offense.

Yes I have Ghsv 2, but many of friends here are Ghsv 1 and married as well :) .

Peace , Aces

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musumegirl

[uSER=46904]@WilsoInAus[/uSER] Of course, my intentions are just the same though I never thought of myself as apart of the solution to herpes (is there one? lol). Numbers, statistics, averages, all of this I really see as just background noise. There are plenty of us here who are apart of that "small chance" or "rare occurrence." We all "got it" and could "give it." If you search the ghsv1 postings, MANY MANY people suggested that ghsv1 is "practically impossible" or "rare" to transmit. Some folks even state they don't disclose because of this. And, there are arguments to counter arguments to counter those arguments here (blood test isn't reliable, swab is the only, incubation, number of partners). I'm not here to tackle those stats, again, and sometimes in this Forum, its hard to locate information due to the incredible amount of digression that occurs.

I feel like I keep saying this but its not getting through....my only intent was to share how someone DID contract ghsv-1 from me and was likely due to being uncut.

Here is a clear timeline for folks who are concerned about it:

1.) He was tested before we hooked up, 0/0 for both, I saw his papers

2.) OB occurred within 3 days of not using condoms

3.) This OB occurred about 30 days after I had an OB (first in years as cited)

4.) I gave him acyclovir 300mg daily, and it went away within a week

5.) We broke it off, both of us were re-tested, his came back 1.01 ghsv-1/.03 for hsv2, mine were the same, I saw his papers

6.) I went with him to the doctor for moral support and they went over the whole deal, likelihood of whom it came from (me), how its even more likely since I had an OB recently and the virus is active, talked about being uncut. May I add, that I work with my local DOH on STD data for our county.

I just wanted to share that in my sexual experience since having ghsv1 that the only time I spread it was with an uncut man. And that even though some on here think ghsv-1 is practically impossible to transmit, I am telling you its not.

I find this really strange that only moderators/staff are responding to me at this point, publicly, and I presume that [uSER=37345]@Acesheart[/uSER] brought this to your attention. So:

[uSER=37345]@Acesheart[/uSER] I thought we could take this offline and discuss scenarios and details in detail privately. Since you decided to keep it here I think I deserve a chance to respond publicly as well. We have interacted on this Forum multiple times before and have had chats as well without any issues. Its a little disheartening that as a lead poster here, you've chosen to attack me.

So as you said, you were only providing guidance and now its illustrating my character as unsupportive? Shady? I never said you insulted me nor thought so until your last post. I am on this forum to be supportive, help in any way I can while learning as well. I've donated, shared my experiences, and have reached out to those outside this forum for support. So don't go generalizing my intentions by a single instance that you took offense to. I stand by my statement (the one you referred to as shady) exactly as I meant it: as one of the lead posters here, who has immense reach and influence, I do find it surprising you weren't aware of cut vs. uncut regarding infections. This is one of the main reasons Western countries use to rationalize the practice of it. I don't really find that comment shady that am genuinely happy you're educating yourself on it because you should. If you took offense to that, that's your choice, not mine...so don't go throwing attacks at me because you felt attacked (true colors).

Let's talk about petty too:

Whats with bringing in the calvary (moderator)? Attacking me? Overcompensating with the "I received messages/helping people"? Honestly, [uSER=37345]@Acesheart[/uSER], all you had to respond and say from the get go was "Hey can you go over testing/resources/details" Instead you started right off w/whether or not he was "truthful." Then you respond with "It's not about proving someone has lied. " Make up your mind already or have some ownership on your contribution to the conversation rather than making grand statements about my intent/character and "riding off into the sunset" with the "peace" thing. Come on, I know you're better than that, because I have seen it. I said from the get go I wasn't offended and I wasn't, but now I am, because you've attacked me, been condescending, and took something and just ran with it in the wrong direction.

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WilsoInAus

Please note that I am an independent moderator of the forum, I do not receive messages from fellow moderators to respond on the public forum. My views are my own and they are as different as they are similar to moderators such as Aces.

I'm sorry if this seems antagonistic, but I see no evidence that this partner was infected by you. Unless he tests clear negative then clear positive >3.5 then there is in fact a greater likelihood that one of the following is true: he is not infected at all owing to a false positive or he's had an oral infection all his life.

You do not mention if his first tests were IgG, you can't get a 0 result.

But even that gets us nowhere. Even if you did infect him, this says nothing about being circumcised versus not or what the transmission rates are or are not negligible. You cannot eliminate the fact that circumstances existed for yourself that made you particularly infectious at this time that have not existed before.

What you say is getting through, but what you say is subject to an alternative interpretation than what you propose, wouldn't you agree? As you say, you've seen all the stories and facts on here over the years.

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musumegirl

[uSER=46904]@WilsoInAus[/uSER]

"Normal range" of a negative for Igg test is 0.00-0.089 according to my lab report that I am looking at as we speak. Again, as I said, stats, numbers, blah blah, I am sure you have a reference stating otherwise. Who cares? Why? Because as you said, this is all subjective right? So whats the point of riding this post down to a nub? His IGG tests for hsv1/hsv2 have been negative his entire life. Then, after unprotected sex with me, an outbreak, he all of a sudden has a false negative for the first time? Myself, him, my primary care doc, the STD counselor, and basic research support my "theory" as I originally stated, that men who are uncut can acquire infections much easier. Which I have backed up with references.

Additionally, I've had ghsv1 for 5 years and my Igg is not eve 2.0. As I said, a stat, number, counterargument for yours. You're right I didn't mention it, a simple inquiry, provides simple results :)

The whole point of this forum is to share, as I have done. And am unsure how I have ended up in a cycle of going back and forth for no real reason.

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WilsoInAus

As I mentioned I agree with the observation that circumcised guys have a lower risk of STDs. Note though as is also noted in these studies that there are other studies in which no effect at all is found.

Either way, circumcision is an outdated and unrecommended practice such that the incidence of being 'un cut' is much higher for today's youth.

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musumegirl

I can't believe I am going to say this, but I am, because it keeps playing in my head over and over and I usually like to filter things so they are succinct and grammatically correct (as best I can)

Dude, do moderators just want to be right and have the last word? Lol

I definitely felt the case with Aces just now with the condescension and passive aggressiveness. Well, outright aggression I guess with the name calling. Then again, I just wish I had people messaging me like her telling me I helped them! *sarcasm obviously*

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musumegirl
As I mentioned I agree with the observation that circumcised guys have a lower risk of STDs. Note though as is also noted in these studies that there are other studies in which no effect at all is found.

Either way, circumcision is an outdated and unrecommended practice such that the incidence of being 'un cut' is much higher for today's youth.

Show me your resource supporting your last comment! :fight:

....I am kidding

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WilsoInAus

No evidence I can provide last time I looked in the mirror! lol

All I strive for is balance and completeness of thinking and possible interpretation, I do not comment further if that is inherent in the posts.

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