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Forcing Herpes Out of Hiding for a Cure


Evaluate

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There's been a lot of talk about vaccines and CRISPR/Cas9 on the board as of recent.  It got me thinking about what other research is going on out there and what's become of it.  The idea isn't a new one - force herpes out of hiding and simultaneously use a drug to rid the body of it.  I'm aware of two groups of researchers but haven't heard much about it for some time.

University of Chicago and Prof Roizman - Got $600k from NIH in 2009 to help find ways to bring herpes out of hiding.  I can't find anything else on it.  Perhaps he's written papers about it that are behind a paywall?  Link 1 and link 2.

Duke University - Bryan Cullen in 2008 talked about starting animal trials with this approach.  Not sure if anything came of it. Link 1, link 2 and link 3

Does anyone else know if there is similar research going on elsewhere and what's become of the the above work?

Edited by Evaluate
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I think if the Roizman approach had panned out we would have heard more about it during the past few years. Hopefully they learned some things about the virus and wrote it up. But they tried.

Edited by Voyager2
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There are drugs that they have found brings HIV out of hiding. One is PEP005 and the other is Disufiram. I know that HIV and HSV are two different viruses and hide in the body differently but I can't help but wonder if they would bring it out of hiding. 

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10 hours ago, Broken_14 said:

There are drugs that they have found brings HIV out of hiding. One is PEP005 and the other is Disufiram. I know that HIV and HSV are two different viruses and hide in the body differently but I can't help but wonder if they would bring it out of hiding. 

If these drugs are available for HIV, is there a reason that the HIV hasn't yet been cured?

I'm no scientist but the viruses seem to be different. After reading about the JFK pathway that was recently found to activate when herpes does, are they at a point where they can stimulate the virus to come out of hiding? @StayingUpbeat do you know of any literature regarding this?

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They haven't tested PEP005 in anyone wih HIV and they only tested Disufiram in 10 people with HIV for a few days. And their viral load got higher. 

I know HIV and HSV are two totally differnt viruses. 

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11 minutes ago, Broken_14 said:

They haven't tested PEP005 in anyone wih HIV and they only tested Disufiram in 10 people with HIV for a few days. And their viral load got higher. 

I know HIV and HSV are two totally differnt viruses. 

I've just read more about Disufliram - that's really cool!  It's a new finding as of November.  I wonder if it woke up 100% of the HIV in order to eradicate it.

Here's a link if anyone else is interested http://www.sciencealert.com/alcoholism-drug-brings-dormant-hiv-virus-out-of-hiding

Edited by Evaluate
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Evaluate - very interesting. Are any of our members physicians or virologists? Since the drug is already proven harmless and readily available, is anyone in this forum interested in running a personal trial?

Match the study's dosing along with valacyclovir?

Get some anecdotal results

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4 hours ago, Achesve said:

Evaluate - very interesting. Are any of our members physicians or virologists? Since the drug is already proven harmless and readily available, is anyone in this forum interested in running a personal trial?

Match the study's dosing along with valacyclovir?

Get some anecdotal results

I've thought about it but I want to know that it's not going to make it worse if it doesn't work. I think we should all pull together and try to do it ourselves. If we have scientists, researchers and so forth on here, than lets do stuff instead of waiting for 10-20 more years. 

Or write the company or anyone that would be interested in this possibly helping us and get it in trials since it's already approved for people now.. Or like I said, we can pull together and all do our own trial. 

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4 hours ago, Broken_14 said:

I've thought about it but I want to know that it's not going to make it worse if it doesn't work. I think we should all pull together and try to do it ourselves. If we have scientists, researchers and so forth on here, than lets do stuff instead of waiting for 10-20 more years. 

Or write the company or anyone that would be interested in this possibly helping us and get it in trials since it's already approved for people now.. Or like I said, we can pull together and all do our own trial. 

I'm all in 

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I would caution people about jumping to conclusions based upon one study.  The one study conducted does not conclusively confirm that it is waking up all of the dormant HIV.  The hypothesis regarding how Disufliram works is that it makes HIV think the host cell is dying and then jumps ship.  HIV integrates into the host's genome while HSV does not, so it may not convince HSV to do the same.  Waking the virus up is half the battle.  Finding a way to destroy HIV is the second half as antivirals won't do this. Note this important part:

Quote

Once the team confirms that the drug is definitely flushing out the dormant HIV - Andy Coghlan reports for New Scientist that they interpret an increase in HIV gene expression in their study group as a sign that it had been woken up - the next step will be to find a drug that can kill them once they hit the bloodstream. While antiretroviral drugs can stop these cells from multiplying, they can’t destroy them.

I think this would be the same problem for HSV, as acyclovir won't kill the virus.  Although, I'm not sure if the body's defense mechanisms would be able to handle destroying the virus as long as it can't hide away.  Perhaps if a therapeutic vaccine works (say Admedus or GEN-003), the vaccine would train the immune system how to more efficiently and effectively fight HSV.  If a successful vaccine would be administered prior to HSV being forced from its dormancy (if/when discovered), the immune system may be able to effectively fight the virus without a drug.  That being said, I don't have the qualifications or knowledge to know for sure - perhaps someone else can comment on that aspect.

I'm wondering if there is any more research on the HSV front regarding activating the virus from its dormant state and if there are any updates about the two researchers' and their work above.

Edited by Evaluate
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Just now, Evaluate said:

I would caution people about jumping to conclusions based upon one study.  The one study conducted does not conclusively confirm that it is waking up all of the dormant HIV.  The hypothesis regarding how Disufliram works is that it makes HIV think the host cell is dying and then jumps ship.  HIV integrates into the host's genome while HSV does not, so it may not convince HSV to do the same.  Waking the virus up is half the battle.  Finding a way to destroy HIV is the second half as antivirals won't do this. Note this important part:

I think this would be the same problem for HSV, as acyclovir won't kill the virus.  Although, I'm not sure if the body's defense mechanisms would be able to handle destroying the virus as long as it can't hide away.  Perhaps if a therapeutic vaccine works (say Admedus or GEN-003), the vaccine would train the immune system how to more efficiently and effectively fight HSV.  If a successful vaccine would be administered prior to HSV being forced from its dormancy (if/when discovered), the immune system may be able to effectively fight the virus without a drug.  That being said, I don't have the qualifications or knowledge to know for sure - perhaps someone else can comment on that aspect.

I'm wondering if there is any more research on the HSV front regarding activating the virus from its dormant state and if there are any updates about the two researchers' and their work above.

The problem with HSV is that it hides in the neurons and prevents apoptosis in neuronal cell. Acyclovir/valtrex and the bodies normal immune response would be able to clear out virus if it wasn't for HSV going into latency. Apparently HIV doesn't have an "acyclovir" to combat it in the bloodstream. But using antabuse is something worth testing once an antiviral for clearing out the bloodstream is created. Another potential hazard in activating HSV at the same time is the potential for massive tissue damage as stated by Cullen himself. I believe his current project is where he is supposed to be at. 

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I e-mailed Professor Roizman to see what became of his research.  He told me that NIH never funded it as the project "had no value."  The project, he said, will continue in China with funding secured.  Apparently they are building a facility that will be ready in the fall of 2016.

Other than that, not much info was given to me about who is conducting the research or who is funding it.

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2 hours ago, dont quit! said:

The problem with HSV is that it hides in the neurons and prevents apoptosis in neuronal cell. Acyclovir/valtrex and the bodies normal immune response would be able to clear out virus if it wasn't for HSV going into latency. Apparently HIV doesn't have an "acyclovir" to combat it in the bloodstream. But using antabuse is something worth testing once an antiviral for clearing out the bloodstream is created. Another potential hazard in activating HSV at the same time is the potential for massive tissue damage as stated by Cullen himself. I believe his current project is where he is supposed to be at. 

I was under the impression that acyclovir does not attack HSV - it stops replication but does not kill the virus. The same is true with HIV they have drugs, such as ART, that stop replication but does not attack the virus.  This allows the immune system to better deal with the virus since it's not replicating as strongly.

I remember Cullen mentioning that issue of tissue damage.  In my non-professional opinion I think this issue can be mitigated with a vaccine pre-treatment.  If the body can effectively fight the virus, but is unable to get the virus that is hiding, then a vaccine + drug that kills the virus might prove useful once a way is determined to awaken herpes.

Edited by Evaluate
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