Anything else i can say?

[Demosthenes]

I've been dating an amazing girl for three months. We stayed somewhat innocent for the first month and a half. When it seemed we were going to possibly end up having sex, i scheduled the talk with her. At first, she was totally OK with it. She told me "Wow, i thought you were going to tell me you were married and had kids or something!"

Since the talk, although we progressed physically, we still didn't actually have sex. I'd say i've definitely begun falling in love with her. She seems to be in the same boat - she always tells me i'm the most amazing guy she's ever met.

But then she started to re-think the situation. What if we aren't together forever? What if she is NOT asymptomatic (i've not had an outbreak in many years)? She's young - only 23 - and she's just too afraid that she'll get HSV-2 from me via asymptomatic viral shedding. So, last night, she ended our relationship - after we talked and cried for hours.

I know i should probably just accept it and move on, but i can't. She's too amazing.

I told her that something close to 1 in 4 have it. I told her that, since i'm on medication, viral shedding may be limited to something like one day a year (or possibly more rare than that). I told her that we could be safe. I told her that she may even be safer with me because i *know* i have it.

But she was in a long term relationship where there were "boundaries" (the guy was very non-sexual). And now she's afraid that she'll either contract this disease, or end up in a long term relationship with more boundaries.

What else can i possibly say to her? What should i do? Is there anything i can do to get her to feel safe? Should i tell her to speak to a doctor? What other prevention can we use, other than just a condom? Does anyone have any additional advice, or should i call it over and do my best to forget about her?

I'm really in love with this girl. She texted me all night, telling me how cold she felt, and how it wasn't fair. I know she wants me, it's just that she can't handle this low risk. What else can i do?

[MsLucy]

I've always found it completely maddening that we can't make other people do what we want them to, feel what we want them to, or think the way we want them to. Really. It drives me nuts! But the fact is, we can't... and we shouldn't.

I'm sorry things worked out this way for you. If she was older, I think maybe she would have had an easier time of accepting it. You gave her all the facts, but I have a feeling that maybe you have something else working against you. It could be that her friends (who are most likely much less informed than you) have been discouraging her, or possibly, she's been on line looking at all the horrible worst-case pictures they have plastered all over the web. That stuff would scare anyone away.

If you really are serious about her, and you sound as if you are, give her a little space and time. If you are still talking, you might ask her if she's been looking at the stuff on line, or what her friends have had to say about her situation. But I wouldn't push her. If she finds that she can't get you out of her head, she may decide that she wants to be with you regardless of the risks you described. Keep the lines of communication open and let her know the door is still open, at least for a while. That's about all you can do.

Good luck, my friend. I do hope things work out for you.

[BoxofRain]

I am sorry this has happened to you .....it is one of the worst scenarios i picture for my future. But the sad reality is that it is her choice and it is actually very risky to be involved with someone who has herpes and you really cant guarantee her anything because herpes is passed easily even when you try and do your best to protect others.......its also true the longer you are with someone the more the odds are against them in them getting it due to probability and amount of times you have intimate contact over the years........she may not get it right away but eventuall she would at some point. It is so hard to be young and have this shit facing you. I am 24 and got this when i was 22 while in a monogamous relationship with someone who had no clue he was a carrier of this virus........we had sex for 3 years daily unprotected most of the time and I never got it from him all that time and then bam! one day get a weird rash, get tested and in the end find out its herpes and he tests positive and never had a clue he could have ever been carrying it. If i ever met someone from the age of 20-late 20s and no matter how much i loved them i could not put my life at risk like that no matter who they were or how much i loved them and it is sad but it is the honest truth and i for the very same reason would never expect someone to sacrifice their health and life for me. Just give her time and space

[Demosthenes]

Thanks for the responses. I have to say, i feel a bit childish for the way i've acted over the past 24 hours. I guess a little bit of that is justifiable, considering the circumstances, right?

I can logically tell myself that i need to let her go. I can logically tell myself that there's no point in trying to argue her back into my arms. But it hurts to have to see this end. I've had my fair share of serious relationships, but i don't ever recall feeling so enthralled by a girl so quickly. She's just the perfect balance of traits. So although i can logically see that it's over, my emotions have been ruling me.

I started to try seeing it from her perspective. *I* was never given a choice - but what if i had that choice? Would i have stayed? It's sorta hard for me to approach that objectively now, after 7 years of knowing i'm infected. But i think i'll learn to respect and understand her choice. After all, i care about her - i don't want her to have to go through the emotional turmoil that i endured.

So, instead i'll just flip the emotion switch to the off position for a while! I win! But from my past experiences, i've found you have to be a bit careful with that - if it's off for too long, it can take a long time to get the switch back to 'on'.

Thanks again for your counsel. Maybe i'll try one of the dating sites, where i won't have to worry about a few months of emotional investment being brushed aside...

[Demosthenes]

She texted me this morning to tell me that she misses me. Though i really do think our relationship is over, it made me feel a bit less hurt. It's nice to be able to remind myself that it's not exactly *me* she's rejecting.

[MsLucy]

When it comes to love, I've always been an optimist. It's one of the few things in this life worth risking everything on. That's why I chose to stay with someone I knew had herpes, even though I knew eventually I'd probably get it, too. Sure enough... it took 7 years, but I did. Do I regret it? Not for a minute. If I had to choose again, I'd would still choose to stay with him. He's worth it.

I know not everyone shares that philosophy, and sometimes we have to see things practically. But I do hope she surprises you, and realizes that, yes, some things are worth taking a chance on. We all deserve a little happily ever after in our lives. I hope it's your turn.

[Angel Eyes]

I gotta say demosthenes, your posts made me cry.... the obvious care and love you have for this woman is very touching. I commend you for talking about whats going on. thank you..... I recently acquired HSV2 (4 months ago), and I am 'practicing' the talk by going to my ex-boyfriends (who are now very good friends) and telling them.... one of them (who proposed to me years ago, i said no)....recently, told me that he thought we were falling back in love. i started to cry.... then i couldn't hold it in. i had to tell him. i told him that my last boyfriend gaive me something for life....he guessed it....herpes. He then told me that if we were to ever 'be' he would want to get the virus too, just so we could be going through this together..... I couldn't believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It made me feel very good. I realized he is right... someone that truely loves you will go through it.... or take the risk

hope this helps...

[Demosthenes]

Thanks, Angel. I can certainly relate to that pain you're going through - i'm sure most of the people here can. I'm sorry it's so painful for you. It's sad that this virus has such an unfair stigma associated with it. It's just one of those things that isn't talked about. There's still that stereotype that leads people to believe that it says something about you as a person. As though it indicates that you're promiscuous, or that you make terrible decisions. Or that it's some kind of horrible, disfiguring disease. But it's all quite obviously not true. I know there aren't a lot of things that can easily console you right now, but just remember that you're nowhere near alone! There are literally millions of people out there who have it. 1 in 4! There's no reason to feel bad about yourself. Somewhere i read a great little quote - "If herpes is your worst trait, then you're a great catch!"

And you're right, I definitely care about this girl a lot. And i certainly agree that love can quite easily overcome this disease. In my case, though, it's only been three months - it would be unfair for me to criticize her for not caring about me enough to stay. I was hoping that i could convince her to stay with me for a few more months to see where things would go. But she was too scared she'd be impulsive, you know? She's a very sensual person, and i can easily see us getting carried away. But much more than that, she didn't want this to be harder than it had to be. She didn't want to still feel afraid in six months, and feel like she had to end it then - when it would have been so much more difficult for both of us.

I certainly feel less self loathing today. But i still miss her as though we've never been apart until this very moment. She happens to be a long distance trail runner like me, and she also happens to work with my brother. So there's still a chance that a future encounter will change her mind. I hope for that, but for now i'll heed the advice given here and let her go. Maybe she'll still miss me in a week, or a month - and maybe then i'll get a text - "Hey rp! I still miss you. I was hoping maybe we could talk. Can you come over tonight?" Heaven.

[Demosthenes]

...and two hours later, my roller coaster of emotions heads back in the other direction!

After i just told her that i accepted her decision, and that i didn't want to put her at risk, i read this:

http://herpes.org/herpesinfo/partnerprotection.shtml

0.4% chance over eight months! God, you're probably more likely to get struck by lightning! I was throwing around numbers when i talked to her - but even i didn't really appreciate that.

And so i sent her that link, all the while feeling a bit like a psycho. *sigh*

[Demosthenes]

Yeah, this is becoming more like a blog entry for me to vent my emotions, rather than an actual forum thread. But i figure i might as well bring this to a close.

She emailed me in response to my message with the link above. It was a long email, telling me that she was researching on her own, that she was going to see her doctor, and that she spends all day and most of the night thinking about whether she's made the right decision.

I asked her if there was another reason, or if there was someone else. And here's what she said:

no, there's nothing else. nobody else. remember the way you kissed me the first night i met you? how could there be anyone or anything else?

And she ended her mail with this:

i promise you, if i change my mind, today, tomorrow, next week, next year, i'm certainly not above hunting you down and harassing you until you're mine again. i'll say it again. i promise you, if i change my mind, today, tomorrow, next week, next year, i'm certainly not above hunting you down and harassing you until you're mine again.

I think I can let her go now. I gave my word I'd not try to contact her again. To be honest, I still doubt that she'll change her mind - at least not anytime soon. But that's ok. I'm still better off having known her.

[MsLucy]

Honey, I think she's better off for having known you. Hugs.

[Angel Eyes]

Hey,

Someone said something to me that really hit home.... If you love someone, let her go. If she comes back to you, she is yours forever. If she doesn't, it was never meant to be...

I think you are really brave. I know it is so hard to let someone you love go. It will make you stronger. As the days go by, every day you will wake up and maybe feel just a little bit better, just a little.

But I gotta tell you; love never dies, it just changes form... that is my true belief...(that is if you love her). i know you said it has only been 3 months.

btw, thanks for the link. It actually crushed me a lil b/c i couldn't believe how hard it is to actually get this virus! MY God , why US???? It sucks

[Scubagirl0325]

I'm sitting here reading your "blog" with tears streaming down my face. I hope so much that she changes her mind...

[Demosthenes]

I did, by the way, send a short response to that email she sent me. Since a few of you wrote such nice things to me here, i suppose i'll share that with you as well...

You melt me so completely, ****. I'm so totally and completely yours if you ever change your mind. I've always been yours - our paths had just never crossed to allow you to see that. But, I will be true to my word, and I'll not bother you again. I'm so sorry I've been causing you pain by trying to continue to reach out - and I'm crying now with the thought that I've made this so much harder on you, mixed with a few tears of joy that you really do care about me. I miss you, I genuinely care about you, I adore you, and I just can't imagine how there could ever be anyone but you. But I go back and forth too (obviously) as to whether I think you're making the right decision. I want to protect you, but I want to love you.

In the end, the only right decision is the one that you feel is right. As I've said before, I'll never forget you, **** - even if this really is our final goodbye. You've given me so much in the short time we've known each other. Nothing I could ever say could thank you for that. As sad as I've been with the knowledge that I have to let you go, I'm far better off having known you. You're an amazing woman, ****. No matter what happens or where you go, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

As i mentioned before, i truly believe that this is the end for us. She's 6 years younger than me - only 23 - and she feels like she's naive and has so much more of the world to see. I know she cares about me, and i know she wants to be with me. But it really is a lot to ask of someone you've only known for three months. I don't think i really knew what *I* wanted at that age. Perhaps when she sees more of the world and meets more guys out there, she'll just end up appreciating me more. Indeed, perhaps if i see other girls, i'll appreciate her more.

All i can do is try to move on, and try to push to the back of my mind for now...

[Demosthenes]

Honey, I think she's better off for having known you. Hugs.

Thanks for saying so! But i must say, this falls into the category of things that i can logically tell myself, but that are still difficult to feel are true. Does that make sense?

Ever since i was diagnosed, i've run into this problem. I can logically tell myself that i'm a good guy. I'm very well rounded - as at home at a symphony as i am at a black metal show. I'm intelligent without being too dorky. I'm polite and considerate, but i can still be sarcastic, wild, and fun when the situation presents itself. I'm confident without being cocky, and i'm very friendly and outgoing. I'm in excellent shape, and i'm always looking for new adventures - rock climbing, trail running, sky diving, etc. I'm driven, and passionate about what i do. I'm a romantic and an idealist, but still have the logic to balance that. I have a ton of intellectual curiosity, but i can dance, i dress well, and i can sing. How many dorks fall into THAT category? haha

I can see that i have good traits. I can write them out. If i were someone else, i might be able to read that list with pride, and feel good about myself. But do i feel like i'm a good catch? Not usually. The company i own is struggling, and it makes me question whether i can really succeed at whatever i put my mind to. And no matter what happens - even in my happiest moments, my life is gray-shifted by the emotional effects of this virus. I can quote numbers, dismiss the risks as somewhat minor, and remind myself that i'll mostly likely have no physical symptoms again in my life. But these statements are nothing in the face of the things i feel.

It shouldn't be this way. There's no need to be so affected emotionally. But my diagnosis was particularly harsh for me - and despite the years that have slipped by since then, i've never quite separated myself from the emotions that were set up that day.

There are two reasons it was tough for me. The first, something many here can quote - i was always the safest guy i knew. I didn't have one night stands, and i never slept with anyone i didn't *know* was safe (translation: i *thought* i knew was safe).

But that's nothing compared to the diagnosis itself. The nurse who examined me didn't offer any words of consolation. I didn't know anything about this disease - other than the stigma - and she didn't offer to inform me. Neither did she even suggest i inform myself. She didn't tell me how minor the physical effects would be. She didn't help me to see that i could live a normal life, and that i shouldn't blame myself. Instead, as i sat there with tears in my eyes, she just said "wear a condom", and walked away from me. I sat in my car after that, feeling more alone and lost than anyone should ever have to feel, basically vowing to isolate myself for the rest of my life...

I did isolate myself for a long time, and it was only years later that i started to really educate myself. But even armed with the facts, it's difficult for me to move past those feelings that were established that day...

Kind of a long response to a simple compliment, eh? haha...

[Demosthenes]

Just another update - she came back to me. Sorta. haha. After a week or two of not talking, she told me that she couldn't stay away from me. She said that she had been thinking about me non-stop since we last saw each other.

I say "sorta", because we really haven't discussed what our status is. She didn't tell me that she changed her mind, or that she decided i was worth the risk. Just that she realized it was ridiculous to hope that she could just forget about me. All that being said, we've spent the night together a few times since we started seeing each other again, and without being too graphic, it's pretty clear to me that she's becoming more comfortable with the idea of a full sexual relationship with me. To be honest, i hardly even care right now. I love to please her, and i just love my time with her in general. That's all that i need to focus on!

So anyway - i just wanted to write this out to remind everyone that there's always hope. There are always people who will understand. There are always people who are in the same situation. There are always people who will see through the stigma and appreciate you for who you are.

And sometimes there are even people who can change their minds.

[fivestar]

Hey Demosthenes, you sound like a pretty great guy. How old are you? I hope it works out for you and your love. I recently had to tell my love that I have herpes. So far he has taken it AMAZINGLY well. But I am afraid that he will change his mind. I just emailed him explaining the risks again because he did not know ANYTHING about herpes when I first told him and I am afraid he still does not completely understand. The thing is he is much much older than I. I am afraid to give him problems at such a mature age. Anyways, I hope you keep us posted on your relationship. I hope my lover doesn't leave me, too. But sometimes I think finding a partner with herpes would be so much less stressful.

Just another update - she came back to me. Sorta. haha. After a week or two of not talking, she told me that she couldn't stay away from me. She said that she had been thinking about me non-stop since we last saw each other.

I say "sorta", because we really haven't discussed what our status is. She didn't tell me that she changed her mind, or that she decided i was worth the risk. Just that she realized it was ridiculous to hope that she could just forget about me. All that being said, we've spent the night together a few times since we started seeing each other again, and without being too graphic, it's pretty clear to me that she's becoming more comfortable with the idea of a full sexual relationship with me. To be honest, i hardly even care right now. I love to please her, and i just love my time with her in general. That's all that i need to focus on!

So anyway - i just wanted to write this out to remind everyone that there's always hope. There are always people who will understand. There are always people who are in the same situation. There are always people who will see through the stigma and appreciate you for who you are.

And sometimes there are even people who can change their minds.

[Demosthenes]

I'm 29. How about you? And your lover? Though i certainly can't promise you anything, i know that older people will generally take it better than the younger ones. I have a female friend who's 41 (she's my confidant, if i didn't mention that in my posts), and she was totally unphased when i told her i had HSV2. She told me she knew a lot of people like me, and that if she was dating someone who told her that, she would be totally ok with it.

I hope it works out for you. But if it doesn't, just remember that you're not alone! I think that the HSV dating sites will continue to get bigger as people discover them. I isolated myself for a long time, and i wish now that i had seen those sites earlier. Maybe i wouldn't have been alone for so long!

As to my relationship, things are still going fine. I saw her three nights in a row over the weekend (not that simple, considering each of our schedules). She's very sweet to me, and tells me how much she adores me, but we still haven't had a discussion about what our real status is - whether she thinks she'll be able to handle the risks. But as i've said - i'm not in a huge hurry. I enjoy being with her, and that's all that matters...