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maryland

Zostvax ( shingles vaccine )

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bob12
Hi guys,if the chicken pox virus has to invade the same cells as the herpes virus and perhaps mark the cells as being compromised so the anti bodies are drawn to them, perhaps a study of acupuncture would help.It could be the way its injected and not the type of vaccine.Just my 2 cents worth.

That's not how it works. Virus cells have certain surface proteins, your immune system sees those proteins and reacts with antibodies against it. The IgG tests are simply antibody tests that look for anti-g protein antibodies.

Assumably that's how the VZV vaccine is effective, since VZV and HSV are both part of the same family, they do share some of the same surface proteins. By boosting VZV antibodies, attacking HSV cells is probably collateral damage. The rationale is possibly why it's also not completely effective in people.

As to why some people have lots of outbreaks and others don't:

1) Could be a strong immune system

or

2) Could be body chemical makeup, other related antibodies or nutrition of whatever doesn't allow the virus to thrive and it just goes completely or mostly dormant

It gets more confusing when you see people who tested swab positive, but never have positive blood tests. A reasonable person might ask how that is possible, doesn't seem like a strong immune system if you never see positive blood, unless:

1) Elevated titers of another related herpes family virus has it mostly under control due to the shared surface proteins

or

2) Something about that person's chemical makeup, nutrition, or whatever has rendered the virus pretty much dormant to where the immune system doesn't even need to take enough action to trip the positive level meter.

As far as IgG tests go, the IgG tests are designed to look for the anti- g protein antibodies since the g protein is unique to each virus. If a person has HSV, but the g protein antibodies never get high enough to register, why is that? Even if another closely related antibody is theoretically working on the shared surface proteins, why does the unique protein never raise an antibody? Or maybe it does, but the shared proteins antibody has done a fairly good job at eradicating the virus and what's left of virus cells with g-specific protein is so small that those optical index values of the IgG test never get high enough to look positive.

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StayingReallyHopeful

Wow, what an amazing explanation!

Thanks so much for your post Bob12...it's definitely cleared up a lot of things.

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fh12

If you look at the study, Patient 1 had recurring HSV2 resistant to low-dose acyclovir. Her HSV1 and HSV2 antibodies were low as well as her anti VZV antibodies. After the anti-VZV vaccine, her HSV1 and HSV2 antibodies increased slightly but her anti VZV antibody levels doubled with no further herpes recurrences. This supports their theory in the study.

Patient 2 had cancer with anti VZV antibody titers that remained low even after the vaccine yet she did not have recurrences of herpes. Even with cancer and a suppressed immune system. The theory that the anti VZV antibody increase is what causes the HSV virus to become dormant doesn't apply here so obviously a different mechanism is at work that they have not figured out yet. She was not included in the 24.

I hope and pray one day all viruses can be eradicated from us safely. I will be getting the Varivax vaccine sometime next year.

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maryland

On the secret facebook community, some people said that there were reports of people who took the vaccine and had no problems. Many others didn't come back to update their situation.

I wish I had kept a list with their usernames and their updates...

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osten

I took this vaccine a couple of weeks ago though I don't know if its working yet. I used to read and follow the posts here before.

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jj8

Does anyone know the difference between intradermal and subcutaneous injection? Varivax website says should be administered subQ. The reason I ask is I received the Varivax 3 weeks ago, and I had an ob this week. I assume my vaccination was done subQ like recommended.

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1woman4me

do not get the vzv vaccine

I havent been back to report progress because i have been dealing with serious nervous system issues due to this vaccine. HSV can cause mitochondrial dysfunction and fatigue. If you get this vaccine and are having these problems as well as drink alcohol smoke or drink coffee it just increases your chances of vaccine injury. This thread should have never been allowed on the forum. I dont know who originally posted this but it has put many people at risk. This site used to be a great support system to me until that post. Now my life is hell. I cant sleep w/o taking pills I am having chest and kidney pains on a regular basis and the worst part was the doctors couldnt find anything in my blood tests and wouldnt treat me. This website helps people but it can also do harm when such posts are allowed and not reviewed right away and deleted. I will never visit this site again.

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newmember111

So you say "HSV can cause mitochondrial dysfunction and fatigue." Yet you're blaming this on the vaccine?

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1woman4me

I had minor fatigue and it was never a major problem until the vaccine exacerbated it. Go ahead and get the shot then but i was in great shape b4 this. I dont understand why you are trying to discredit me I am simply trying to help people.

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newmember111

I'm only asking questions. This vaccine is given to many children and they don't all have the problems you're referencing.

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1woman4me

their bodies are young and resilient i am 39. vaccines have been proven to cause serious problems of the nervous system and immune system and it seems that only 5-10% of actual injuries are reported which makes the numbers the CDC gives unreliable.

http://thinktwice.com/cpox.htm

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-site-search-result.aspx?q=chickenpox

btw the organ pain is a later side effect after feeling like i was going to die because my hands, feet and eventually my whole body felt like it was on fire. I also had major fatigue and dizziness and eventually a skin crawling feeling that i cant even describe to suit how bad i felt. I was seen by a neurologist thinking it might be MS and it wasnt. Look up post viral fatigue syndrome and cfids as well and u will see that 50% of people that have this say it was caused by a vaccine and have brain damage.

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fh12

As with all vaccines, please review all the risks with a qualified doctor before you get it.

You may want to check into Anatabloc supplement at GNC for pain. Please consult with your doc first as I don't want to recommend something that may make your pain worse. I take this for joint pain and it helps. It is recommended for many inflammation related issues including nerve related ones. It is an expensive supplement though.

Please don't blame this site as it is helpful to many of us who are suffering. You chose to get the vaccine. I hope everybody does their due diligence before getting any vaccine.

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1woman4me

Yes you are right it was my choice and I did ask if there were any risks as well as going to CDC website. Both said it is a safe vaccine with very rare serious side effects. I even asked about caffeine alcohol and cigarette consumption and was told everything was ok after receiving it. I just want to warn people that doctors don't always know everything. Just be careful. We are desperate people and want to be rid of this disease. Sometimes bad decisions are made hastily when desperate. I'm not blaming the site it was great for me but I never would have done this if I was told that it might be harmful. Can't always trust doctors. I just want to help people be safe and warn against it happening to others

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1woman4me

PS. I think posting stuff that would even tempt people to perform clinical trials on themselves is dangerous. If I didn't see it I wouldn't have done it. This is supposed to be a support site not a place to present ideas for people to try and cure themselves when its not FDA approved.

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newmember111
PS. I think posting stuff that would even tempt people to perform clinical trials on themselves is dangerous. If I didn't see it I wouldn't have done it. This is supposed to be a support site not a place to present ideas for people to try and cure themselves when its not FDA approved.

The vaccine is FDA approved... Stop making stuff up

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1woman4me

I meant FDA approved to treat hsv. im not making this up. wow you are just as bad as the doctors telling me it isn't the vaccine and not treating me properly. this is another reason not to come to this site. the harassment is horrible when i am only trying to convey my experience and warn people.

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newmember111
I meant FDA approved to treat hsv. im not making this up. wow you are just as bad as the doctors telling me it isn't the vaccine and not treating me properly. this is another reason not to come to this site. the harassment is horrible when i am only trying to convey my experience and warn people.

There's nothing wrong with you conveying your experience. Just state the facts accurately so that others can make decisions for themselves. I'm glad you've decided to explain your side of things. Sometimes the facts need to be explained explicitly.

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mcnulty

Life is dangerous. What the hell is "support", anyway? Count me in with the harassers.

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rett

I like hearing about possible new treatments as much as everyone else. But why does everyone get so upset when someone claims a highly suspect treatment did not work for them? No need to get so personally offended.

I remember that thread where people were injecting honey into their bodies, someone came in and said that they had injured themselves performing this radical and medically unsound procedure. The response was basically to fuck off!

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fh12

I am not aware of any vaccine that does not have side effects, some of them very serious. It is a chance everybody takes when getting any vaccine. They are weighing the risks with the possible benefits. Feel free to post about them but don't blame anybody but yourself for getting the Varivax vaccine. The possible side effects are all over the internet so there is no excuse for not researching all this information. This site has plenty of unproven methods for helping us but I am sure most of us don't follow them.

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dangitinAL
I havent been back to report progress because i have been dealing with serious nervous system issues due to this vaccine. HSV can cause mitochondrial dysfunction and fatigue. If you get this vaccine and are having these problems as well as drink alcohol smoke or drink coffee it just increases your chances of vaccine injury. This thread should have never been allowed on the forum. I dont know who originally posted this but it has put many people at risk. This site used to be a great support system to me until that post. Now my life is hell. I cant sleep w/o taking pills I am having chest and kidney pains on a regular basis and the worst part was the doctors couldnt find anything in my blood tests and wouldnt treat me. This website helps people but it can also do harm when such posts are allowed and not reviewed right away and deleted. I will never visit this site again.

CoQ10 and ATP helps with mitochondria. You might want to try starting out on 400mg CoQ10 and an ATP supplement. It may take a few months before it really works. I found it helped with my chest pains after I had an ablation. I read up and these support mitochondria support. Hope it will help.

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nik2413

Ok, I have what may be disappointing news.. but here it goes.. I got the varivax vaccine during the first week of August, right after the French report was posted here. I stopped taking valcyclovir 2 days before getting the vaccine.. after I got it, I didn't notice any negative side effects.. I was fine for a month. It seemed to me that when I started to get symptoms of an outbreak, my body would fight them off quicker than usual (by the way, I haven't had an actual "outbreak" in almost three years).. I no longer took valcyclovir after having the vaccine. During the second week of September, I woke up in the middle of the night and had two small bumps and lots of burning/itching.. an outbreak.. this was the first time I've had one in over three years.. and happened just six weeks after I got the varivax vaccine.. I was pretty bummed.. In all fairness, I was definitely "pushing" it with my triggers (spicy food/alcohol) after I got the vaccine. However, I was told that a booster is required.. so I got the booster at the end of September.. my symptoms have definitely slowed down a bit lately.. and I'm hoping for the best, but so far I'm a bit bummed as the initial vaccine definitely did not "stop" my symptoms or outbreaks.

I hope that this was just an initial adjustment to the new VZV antibodies in my system or something along those lines. Guess I'm just grabbing at straws here.

I discussed the vaccine and French study with two doctors before having it who both said it was very safe and that it wouldn't hurt to try.

I'll likely go back to my low-dose of valcyclovir (250mg/day or so) if this booster doesn't do the trick for me.

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newmember111

Nik, to be honest, this sounds more encouraging to me than bad news. Were you taking Valtrex for all 3 years without breaks? This supposedly does take time. I plan to get the vaccine myself soon. This doesn't deter my decision.

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osten

Nik that doesn't sound like bad news to me.

Many of the study participants took two shots. A couple took three and four. You are still early days.

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