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Kepler

Mind bender! My wife says she got herpies without sex

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My wife of 20 years has been recently (10weeks) diagnosed with genital HSV1- most likely primary because very severe- Swab positive and now blood positive from recent IGG

We know that 10 years ago (2007) she was HSV1 negative from  IGG blood tests (done twice for confirmation)

So she must have got since then. How? My fresh bloods have me neg.

HAs she cheated?

Thing is she did tell me she had the outbreak. Why? She could have hidden it.

She did have a few gay relationships before we were married.

I'm thinking she's fallen into the arms of another women. Genital HSV1 somewhat more common in lesbian community, right? 

But there is no evidence of an affair or even a one night.

It has come at the only time in our marriage that sex has stopped (last six months but I take more responsibly for this)

She denies an affair 

Her theory: She is an actor. About three months ago she did a scene for a film where she had to kiss another actor who she says had a sore on his mouth-she argues what if she kissed him  then touch her own mouth - then touch her vagina whilst inserting a tampon - all in 30 minutes she could get it that way- She had her period that day etc,

Whadda ya think?

Freaking out!

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Herpes doesn't really work like that. She's lying.  Sorry friend

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Actually most people with HSV1 never know how, where or who give it to them, so really it could be that she is as confused as you. In reality no way to prove. 

Why did she test 10 years ago, was there a scare or risk. 

1 possible explanation is that she was indeed positive when she took the test in 2007, some people (not too uncommon) can take up to a year or two to develop enough antibodies to register as positive. 

Other than that, sex with someone with HSV 1 genital, or oral. 

Tampon,  no, HSV needs sex and friction and skin to skin contact. 

 

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But why did she tell me if she isn't going to admit an affair. She could have hidden it behind having a vaginal infection. Not uncommon over the years of our marriage.

 

She had the first test because back then a general panel of blood test was done for STDs because of an infection. She did test positive for HSV2 genitally but we all agreed this much have come from prior to out marriage with no knowledge of any breakout.

 

thoughts?

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Kepler said:

My wife of 20 years has been recently (10weeks) diagnosed with genital HSV1- most likely primary because very severe- Swab positive and now blood positive from recent IGG

We know that 10 years ago (2007) she was HSV1 negative from  IGG blood tests (done twice for confirmation)

So she must have got since then. How? My fresh bloods have me neg.

HAs she cheated?

Thing is she did tell me she had the outbreak. Why? She could have hidden it.

She did have a few gay relationships before we were married.

I'm thinking she's fallen into the arms of another women. Genital HSV1 somewhat more common in lesbian community, right? 

But there is no evidence of an affair or even a one night.

It has come at the only time in our marriage that sex has stopped (last six months but I take more responsibly for this)

She denies an affair 

Her theory: She is an actor. About three months ago she did a scene for a film where she had to kiss another actor who she says had a sore on his mouth-she argues what if she kissed him  then touch her own mouth - then touch her vagina whilst inserting a tampon - all in 30 minutes she could get it that way- She had her period that day etc,

Whadda ya think?

Freaking out!

From my opinion now you have 2 things to consider : 1 - if she cheated you 2- the herpes infection itself. Just think very well which one is more important for you after that you can decide without asking anyone. What I am trying to say consideting that she didn't cheat on you are you ready to carry on and contract hsv1&2 and join this forum asking for help and advice and suffering extremely bad genital symptoms. You are very lucky man since you don't have this F virus now on the other hand how your wife contracted it she's the only one who could answer you but not the tampon story this is part of her acting job. Stay strong and remember that your well being is more important than anyone. No one deserve to contract this shitty virus specially if he/she's married and faithful. Side note for any test related issues kindly contact Mr. WisonAus. Thanks 

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Well, HSV 1 does not become genital HSV 1 by a kiss. To get HSV 1 in the genital area someone has to go down on you and spread it down there. Otherwise by a kiss to kiss, she would have it as cold sores in the facial area. Not down there.

Hate to assume this, but if she claim to get genital HSV 1 by a kiss, she is hiding something.

And yes, genital HSV 1 is more common in the female gay community for obvious reasons.

Her theory is ridiculous.

 

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Well she saying its a kiss then touching her mouth then changing her tampon if you know what I mean- all in a short space of time

She does have a low immunity disorder called Hasimotos

Any thoughts

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Have you told her you'd forgive her, and that you just want pure honesty?  
It sounds to me like she might need to hear that.   

Love should triumph over a physical transgression.  And she'll need your support to heal from this.  It's a disease that comes with a side order of mental illness.  I hope you can forgive, support, and continue to love.  

 

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@Kepler

You said it is HSV1, not 2 correct?

@Goran123

are you sure someone has to go down on you to get it below?

here are my thoughts and I am sharing because I have a similar situation but with genital HSV2.  I hope it helps and in the end, you will need to decide if your relationship is something you want despite this virus and the uncertainty that may alway remain. 

I had what appeared to be an initial genital OB  about 3 Days after my husband and I had had sex.  I was negative with initial HSV2 iGg but positive with HSV2 PCR sample and positive for HSV2 iGg 6 weeks later.  i Was told by doctor that this meant recent infx and since I knew I had been faithful, i confronted my husband after my antibiodies showed positive 6 weeks later.  BTW, my HSV 1 initial iGg was also negative though I am certain I have had it most of my life on my lip .  My 6 week HSV1 iGg was high positive.  

I also tend to have a low immunity but have never been diagnosed with anything, I just seem to catch colds and flu easily  and it takes longer for me to heal.  

So, my husband denied being unfaithful and so far he  has been negative for 2 iGgs (8 weeks and 16 weeks). We are waiting for WB results.  If that shows negative too, then I am at a loss to explain my situation but I know I have always been faithful and have never experienced anything like this.

So... in searching for any possible explanation for me —it is tough— perhaps my initial iGg for HSV2 was wrong and i have always had this?  Teri Warren says iGg test has a lot of false negatives. This seems unlikely though as I showed antibodies at 6 weeks. 

Perhaps maybe what I thought was HSV1 on my lips was always HSV2??  Pretty unlikely. 

Or, maybe it was the warm/gooey toilet seat I sat on?  Everyone says that is not possible but that is the only recent explanation I can find - and to me, given what I know about my own perineum, and what I felt on the toilet seat, this does seem possible, though I am well aware it sounds far-fetched.  But, if they say it can be spread by wet towels, I am not sure why they can feel so confident in saying this is not possible. 

The last few months have been some of the most challenging in my life.  I feel for you.  I feel for your partner.  Only she will know what she did or didn’t do but what came to my mind when I read your story was how my doctor told me to be very careful because there was a risk of infecting  myself by scratching my eyes or others areas—so I am surprised to hear you can only get HSV1 genitally by someone going down on you.  It seems possible she could have had it and been asymptomatic orally but still transmitted it to herself in many ways- shaving down there, tampons, masturbation, etc.  if children can get it simply by sharing straws or by Some Aunt giving them a kiss- how and why are we so sure it can’t be easily transferred gentially?  So many people have HSV1- she could have easily picked it up sometime over last 10 years since you last tested.  I am no expert in this area and I am searching for answers myself....so, i aplogize id i am addinf confusion. 

all I know is if she has been faithful, I can empathize with her how much it sucks to have the tests show up looking like you are not telling the truth. 

The whole latent thing is a big mystery too.  Terri did say people can have it for a long time without major symptoms and then, have what appears to be an initial OB 20 years later.  That blows my mind — and then if you factor in the poor reliability of the testing, it feels like you can’t be certain of anything.  I am praying that my husband and I can get a firm,clear answer from the WB, but again, if it comes back negative, then I have no explanation.  I wish you the best in figuring this out.  

Lastly— i wonder how many people ever get a clear answer - I also wonder how many people falsely think they don’t have it ( due to poor reliability of testing) and are out there passing it around. Also, i agree with your comment about her bringing it up to you— if she had cheated, why would she even bring it up?

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Thanks so "lifelikeyourloved"

Your is the first story I found that really feels similar. 

How is you relationship? Our is going incredible lows but also highs. It has confirmed how much I love this woman.

Her story is more complex than my basic post. Search Honeycomb under "Help Herpies is killing my marriage." You will see there have multi tests ext over time and a missing WB. It mitt be useful for you to read.

I'm am so glad to have read your response.

What is your next step once WB comes in?

 

 

 

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Also "lifelikeyourloved"

you can get HSV2 on your mouth for sure

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sorry "lifelikeyourloved"

 

Rambling now. If you read  my other post my wife also has HSV2 IGG somewhere (we don't know where because there has never been an OB. She tested for it way back in 2007 when dealing with bad infection. She had a second test then to confirm bloods and  WB was organised- this we can't find this result now

 

Now, after having a genitial OB it was swabbed as HSV1 AND now new bloods confirm HSV1 &  2 IGG positive

WTF

Poor woman cheater or not I keep thinking

One big relationship issue is that we both agree that way back in 2007 she said that a second test had proven neg But we have now found record to show that after the initial blood positive a few weeks  later she did a swab and another Blood. Swab neg for both, blood confirming positive HSV2 (so I can't tell if she has done a little white lie at the time so we can move on OR the doctor said something like yes you have been exposed to HSV2 at some time but your infection is nor Herpies so forget about it type thing (this is how we are processing this for now)

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@Kepler

hi there.  I just wrote a very long response- and right before I went to hit send, my Phone lost the web site. Ha!  I can get wordy, so maybe it’s better that way. But I am out of time now and need to start my day. 

In a nut shell, please consider speaking with Terri W and getting both of you tested with the Western Blot ( ONLY available through university of Washington).

I will check back and I hope to connect with you again.  It seems it will be beneficial for both of us to better understand the view from where we sit. 

Be well. Deep breathe in and out.

 

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Thanks again Livelikeyourloved

I'm in Australia so my day is ending.

Even stranger my wife has gone away for 5 days on a film shoot. For years I have travelled endlessly as a documentary maker and it has been a source of great anxiety for her.

She is now away in a foreign place meeting new and interesting people and its happening right when this brain frying Herpies thing has happened. Bloody hell!!!

Anyway the funny thing for us is that the Gyno who in 2007 ordered the WB is proving hard to get records from and our general doctor now and then seems to be unfamiliar with WB. Seems some confusion over whether they are used here in Australia. But I have seen the correspondence from 2007 from the gyno saying she is ordering one.

Do you mind telling me how your husband in reacting. Is he doing what I'm doing? Scouring the internet trying to find some logic that will remove this problem from our lives. Is he spending hours trying to work out who you slept with even though in his gut he doubts that but can't let go.

What about you. Given you know you haven't stepped out of your marriage are you switching between his blood must be wrong and I need to know who he slept with & how did I get this without sex.

Are you fighting? Or are you like us where I have become very hot for my wife and our closeness has grown but  with sporadic spikes of jealous tension. 

How are you guys handling this?

 

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So the one thing to note about HSV-1 is that there's a high chance of a false negative result with an Igg test. It's possible she's had it for years and it never showed up on her screening ten years ago. Yes, it could have been due to cheating, but there's really no way to know for sure.

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18 hours ago, livelikeyourloved said:

The whole latent thing is a big mystery too.  Terri did say people can have it for a long time without major symptoms and then, have what appears to be an initial OB 20 years later.  That blows my mind — and then if you factor in the poor reliability of the testing, it feels like you can’t be certain of anything.  I am praying that my husband and I can get a firm,clear answer from the WB, but again, if it comes back negative, then I have no explanation.  

Thank you so much for sharing this. I have been in a relationship for 10+ years and had my first symptoms of HSV1 about 3 years ago while taking Prednisone.  I always assumed that an initial outbreak would be more severe than a recurrence so I assumed that it had to be an initial outbreak. But that didn't make sense-- my partner was overseas so I had been completely celibate for months. Based on Terri's comments, maybe it was a recurrence and that would make a lot more sense. 

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9 hours ago, Kepler said:

Thanks again Livelikeyourloved

How are you guys handling this?

 

Hey Kepler, 

Here's hoping you had a good day today.  I remember those first few days and weeks and everything was such a blur.  I am so sorry you are both going through this.  

I am concerned about the WB you mentioned and perhaps, others, with more experience with testing, may be able to help out here @WilsoInAus..?    I doubt that back in 2007 you had the Western Blot that I am speaking of because I don't think you can get it readily but, perhaps you did.  In any event, I highly recommend that you  go to this site and check it out.  I also recommend a video consult with Terri Warren or a post to her site and BOTH of you getting tested.  The fees are expensive but in my opinion, worth it . https://www.westoverheights.com/herpes-questions/  

The more I learn, the more I realize that very few doctors really know how complicated this is to diagnose.  Also, Terri Warren just posted in a peer reviewed medical  journal recent findings about how 30% of HSV1 iGg's miss a positive finding and 8% of HSV2 iGg's miss a positive finding.  I have not been able to find the article  but she mentioned it during our consult. 

So, to try to give you a brief summary (not my strong-suit ) of how we are doing, I will go back to when I first found out.  Again,  I had the positive swab, negative iGg, which at 6 weeks showed antibodies (which equals RECENT) and  I had a severe response (fatigue, fever, malaise, etc- which usually means initial outbreak)  and most importantly, I knew I had been faithful.  My doctor went through the different scenarios, odds, etc. with me and basically said my husband must have had another partner.  When I told him that I didn't think he would really do that and shared my concerns about the toilet seat...he said, "Well theoretically the toilet seat is  possible but what do you think  the odds are of that versus someone cheating and then lying about it?"  Every website I went to said the toilet seat wasn't possible, so I was left feeling very hurt, angry, suspicious  as well as concerned that I could have been a long-time carrier of this and not known it.  So, during that first 6 weeks I was on an emotional roller-coaster and was also dealing with the physical effects of this virus and it was hard to focus on much else.  I also did not share this with my husband. It's a long story as to why but he was ignoring me at the time.  

One thing that I have learned in hindsight though, is that much of what we see, feel and even hear is dependent on the "life-glasses" we are wearing at the time. I have worn the "you cheated on me" glasses,  the " I am defective/gross and maybe I somehow brought this into our marriage" glasses, the "there is no hope" glasses and thanks to this site "I am not my virus" glasses.

My husband joined me at the 6 week doctors appt when the doctor told me and him my news (antibodies present).   It was the first time he was actually hearing the words and  I watched his face carefully as well as his reaction.  I was looking for any sign of being guilty, caught, surprised, angry and ultimately, I was hoping he would just confess.  But, in the state I live in, people sue for giving others herpes, so that complicates things and it was really hard to tell from his response if he was guilty, shocked or what.   He really  is a master at keeping cool in tough situations, so I didn't have any clues from his initial reaction.   Since then, his reaction has varied a lot.  He consulted an attorney, discussed it with 2 counselors (and wouldn't share the names)  and what is most painful/dreadful--> he told others (friends and family) and again would not tell me  who and would not agree to stop telling others, even though we had agreed to not to tell ANYONE. It was like he was out to do a smear campaign.  He also had his "list of things to do" out where I could see it, and DIVORCE Items was listed on it.  He would also have some days where he acted like everything was fine and he was really upbeat.  But, almost anytime we tried to talk rationally, it would break down into accusations. and unreasonable conversations.  Also,  within 24 hours of learning the diagnosis, he told me he already had researched enough.  Which was really hard to believe because the more I researched, the more I realized how much I didn't know, and how tricky this virus is.   I will also say that once he had his negative test, he was extremely cruel to me...and when I tried to explain all that i had learned and tried to get him to talk to experts, and to remind him --- that it was possible either one of us had had this for a while and we should try to treat each other as if we were both telling the truth,  he just blocked me out and would say things like--- YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE DISEASE.  One really low-point  was after our visit to a famous clinic in the US - where unfortunately we did NOT see anyone experienced with HSV and they were not familiar with the WB, I had to beg and basically was balling in public pleading with him to do the WB.  He did agree finally and  as I mentioned before, we are waiting on those results.  

Overall,  it has been incredibly painful....and I hate to sound so dramatic, but during that period, .I can honestly say, I know why people kill themselves.  I would not do that but the pain and hopelessness was so intense that I came to understand that depth of hopelessness at a level I hope to not visit again.   Ugh... It's sad how much anger and pain come back to me even now, as i write this.  At any rate, in my mind and with my "you cheated on me glasses"  I reasoned that his behavior actually confirmed what I feared-- that he must have had an affair, otherwise why would he be so defensive, preparing legally and acting so cruel to me?  But later, when he came up negative, I look back and think, "Perhaps he was dealing with his anger, suspicion and feelings that I cheated on him"?  If we assume we are both telling the truth, then, we are basically in the same boat except, so far,  I am the only  one that is positive.  When I think like that, I can understand better how painful and confusing this is for him and how hard it has to be for him to believe me. 

I can relate so much to what you are going through like going over so many things in my mind, trying to put the puzzle pieces together. And like you mentioned about your partner,  it was my husband who has been the one who, in the past and over the majority of our marriage, was suspicious, accusatory and jealous and lately I have been the suspicious one  and asking him a lot of questions. .... I really have not been the jealous type before, but this virus has taken its toll on me mentally....and it's  not projection but instead a feeling of intense anger and desire  to uncover an explanation for what has happened in a situation that doesn't add up.   Here is the other crazy thing,   I was single for most of my life and never had this (that I was aware of) and now, after finally getting married and being faithful I have it!?   What the ??@Mountain Man put it well when he said it comes with a side order of mental illness.  And for some, the actual virus really is nothing, for others, it is a daily struggle with symptoms.  For me, I am finally starting to remember who I am, regardless of the virus and the previously constant nerve pain is much better-- it seems to be  controlled with Valtrex 2-3 times a day..  There have even been  a few days where I have forgotten about it completely, something that 2 months ago, I couldn't imagine would  be possible.  They say the 1st year is the worse, and then, for most, it gets much better.  I am counting on that for myself and I am grateful to have only had one actual OB so far.  

And to your point about strong desires... yes, we have periods where we both let the armor fall to the floor,  and we connect deeply, and the feelings of love and strong desire returns.  We have been intimate a few times since June (neither one of us wanted to have intercourse-- I didn't want to have any chance that he would show up positive and then, have him say the WB  was positive from me giving it to him during this period and he of course, said he didn't want to get it from me.  Also, what is tough is that I have confirmed gential HSV2 and what I  think is HSV1 on my lip- thought it's not usually apparent,....so the pleasure options get very limited--- I still need to better educate myself in that area.   But, after we submitted the WB, we recently gave intercourse a try---with him wearing a condom and shorts. It wasn't like old times but with so much time since we were last together, and in the place where we were connecting at a different level, we were both up for the challenge and tried to stay positive.   

The WB is considered 99% reliable, so I am eager for the results to come, but once we get it, we will still be left to figure out "where do we go from here"?   At this point, I am certain that if he is positive, he would not confess to an affair, and we will deduce that it must have been the jock-itch he mentioned he had when he was younger.  I hope he is positive for the obvious reason of clearing me and assuring him that I did not cheat,  but also because if he is somehow still negative, I don't know if I can handle the "your damaged" feeling I get from him or the on-going suspicion he will understandably carry.  Also, I would not want to give this to him.  Not to mention,  if we are strong enough to get through this and continue in our marriage, it would be nice for him to be positive, so we don't have to manage the precautions.

Bottom line- it is an emotional roller coaster.  Be gentle on yourself.  Be gentle with her. Be kind. You will never regret being kind--- even to people who don't deserve it.  Its hard to tell if she cheated, especially if you are wearing the "you cheated" glasses.   Figure out if you can love her and stay with her  despite the  Herpes and if you are willing to risk that you may get it.  Don't take that lightly.  I agree with the other posts.  It is something to seriously think through...but also realize the risk is low  (if you follow the precautions) and there is a good chance the next person you meet or the one after that, will have HSV.    Also, please get tested yourself by the Western Blot from Terry. And lastly,  if you are the praying type, pray and surrender as best you can, to the fact you may never have concrete answers.  That is what I am trying to do.

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