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HSV, constipation, and urinary retention study


LatentBloomer

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27281569/

HSV-1 spread via the dorsal root ganglia to the autonomic ganglia of the enteric nervous system (ENS) in the colon. ENS infection led to robust viral gene transcription, pathological inflammatory responses, and neutrophil-mediated destruction of enteric neurons, ultimately resulting in permanent loss of peristalsis and the development of toxic megacolon. These results reveal an unexpected pathogenesis of HSV associated with ENS infection.

I have a harmless skin infection. 

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Humans mainly do have a harmless skin infection in HSV-1!

Mice don't funny enough, probably as their genetics is some 50 million years older and less advanced than humans.

Just follow the usual advice, don't kiss a mouse while you're having an outbreak!

 

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I think (and hope) WilsoInAus is right about this. The lethality and dire consequences of many diseases is many folds greater in mice and small animals than what it would be in humans simply because of the complexity of our physiological make up.

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11 hours ago, WilsoInAus said:

Humans mainly do have a harmless skin infection in HSV-1!

Mice don't funny enough, probably as their genetics is some 50 million years older and less advanced than humans.

Just follow the usual advice, don't kiss a mouse while you're having an outbreak!

 

I hear and agree with you on this, but it’s worth noting that genetically, mice are not 50 million years further up the genetic tree. Rather, our lineage diverged some 100 million (not 50 million) years ago, and mutation rates are surprisingly similar (about 1 in 1 million base pair mutations per cell replication event). I’m sure this is what you meant, but non-biologists often get confused about how evolution works when we aren’t clear on these points. Hence why those that deny evolutionary science seem to wonder why people seem to think we evolved from bonobos or chimps rather than diverged from a mutual ancestor.

 

But again, your larger point that the mice aren’t perfect (nowhere near, actually) very great models for human disease experiments is spot on.

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I'm not implying that HSV can cause cellular death in humans the same way it does in mice, but I think it's important to acknowledge that hsv isn't contained to just two nerve clusters. It's entirely possible that hsv can produce systemic symptoms in some people, even if it doesn't result in death or paralysis. Certain non-polio enteroviruses can wreak havoc in some people and manifest as a common cold in others. I think it's foolish to assume that hsv is always harmless. And scientists still don't know what causes ibs or Crohn's disease. Who knows what diseases will become less prevalent once crispr tackles the herpes virus family.

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3 minutes ago, LatentBloomer said:

I think it's foolish to assume that hsv is always harmless. And scientists still don't know what causes ibs or Crohn's disease

Well trying to convince doctors during appointments what these symptoms could be due to since they firmly believe it’s not HSV is like talking to a brick wall. So I don’t even know what to say or do anymore during my visits. I wish there was some sort of pod people could just sit in and get any disease sucked out of them within a few hours and things could go back to normal again.

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@cracked people with fibromyalgia and ME/CFS went through the same thing for years until they were finally acknowledged. You know your body better than anyone else. I have the same issues with my doctors so I omit the part that my symptoms started after sex. I simply state that I developed a recurrent, non-Bacterial UTI that didn't respond to antibiotics and that I've tested negative for everything except HSV. My neurologist explained that I probably caught a virus and that I'm having an autoimmune response to it. He doesn't believe that HSV is that virus, just some other kind of virus. 

Also, I'm willing to accept that this is caused by another virus, but my doctors feel like they've tested for everything else that could be causing these symptoms. I just want a proper diagnosis- I don't care what it is. 

Edited by LatentBloomer
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@crackedI don't know if we'll ever figure it out, but I'm sure we'll eventually get better. 

I know that whatever I have is viral bc my symptoms are no longer chronic, they're recurrent. I'll feel pretty good for a week or 2 and then my lower back starts burning, my left butt cheek aches, pain shoots down my left leg into my foot and my entire genital region feels like I've inserted a jalapeño pepper tampon. The glands in my groin and left underarm also ache and feel tender during this time. 

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@Sanguine108my doctors haven't tested for Lyme bc I live in Florida and ticks are rare here. They're a mild nuisance during this time of year when we import x-mas trees from Michigan but my symptoms started in June. Also, my pcp said that Lyme wouldn't cause my genital problems. I'd still like to be tested for everything though, including non-polio enteroviruses. 

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Well, Lyme is still pretty common and I remember reading about how it can be transmitted skin-skin.

...Doing a little google search.

Is Lyme Disease Contagious? Clues Hint That It May Be A Sexually Transmitted Disease
http://www.medicaldaily.com/lyme-disease-contagious-clues-hint-it-may-be-sexually-transmitted-disease-267964

Who knows, it may not be Lyme, but if you're on the hunt for ruling things out then this would definitely be something to rule out.  I suppose the question here would be what was the history of the person you were intimate with before these symptoms began.

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ya just gotta test to rule it out.  Sometimes you don't need a reason to rule out a pathogen that's very common in general.   That same 'outdated book' knowledge is the same knowledge that gives black and white thinking about 'things' like disease pathology.   A simple example is that HSV-1 only infects the mouth and HSV-2 infects the genitals.   Or that once you get HSV-1 you can't get re-infected by HSV-1 or a different subtype; same w HSV-2.

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I absolutely agree. I had never even considered that Lyme could be transmitted person to person. I'm in the process of getting health insurance again (yay!) so I'll have more leeway when it comes to requesting blood tests.

It would still be an unfortunate diagnosis as there's no cure. :(

And the neurological complications are concerning. 

I'll need a full genetic overhaul if I have hsv and Lyme. xD 

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25 minutes ago, Sanguine108 said:

ya just gotta test to rule it out.  Sometimes you don't need a reason to rule out a pathogen that's very common in general.   That same 'outdated book' knowledge is the same knowledge that gives black and white thinking about 'things' like disease pathology.   A simple example is that HSV-1 only infects the mouth and HSV-2 infects the genitals.   Or that once you get HSV-1 you can't get re-infected by HSV-1 or a different subtype; same w HSV-2.

Can you give us some links to the 'updated book' that has some information, some of these statements seem crazy!

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1 minute ago, LatentBloomer said:

It would still be an unfortunate diagnosis as there's no cure

Lyme is very much curable.   It takes a little more time as it's a spirochete and its literally drilled itself in.   but yeah test.

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@WilsoInAusI think that was sanguine's point- the literature hasn't been updated. A new member just explained that his girlfriend's doctor refused to test her for HSV because you can only transmit during an OB. That's dangerous information being perpetuated by doctors who stop learning after graduation. Even if it turns out he was misdiagnosed with a visual exam, that information is wrong. 

And many people still assume that all genital herpes infections are caused by HSV2

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The literature as far as I am aware is correct and is fully updated to the absolute latest knowledge. It is all largely freely available on ResearchGate for example.

I think you might be referring to some doctors' knowledge being outdated, if so I agree, but that has nothing to do with the literature.

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Not just that, he was attempting to be sneaky and spread misinformation such as:

"Or that once you get HSV-1 you can't get re-infected by HSV-1 or a different subtype; same w HSV-2."

That's not in any literature.

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