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MoniqueLow

Reinfection with the same strain of hsv

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Cas9
50 minutes ago, WilsoInAus said:

Of course it is an individual decision, what does ‘one ought to consider’ mean.

Please read my posts if you’re going to comment, it Is coming across that you have a vendetta and not a rational thought.

Of course you would say "one ought to consider". What's the alternative, given that ultimately the decision is theirs of course. But that doesn't mean you don't try to influence their decision. My comment regarding that issue is based on observations from many comments you've made over the months, including directly with myself. On this particular thread you've been a bit more reasonable.

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WilsoInAus

Reasonable? That’s a little unfair mate, when have I ever said anything that isn’t fact or a reasonable or rational interpretation?! 

I know it’s hard to hear sometimes and rarely wins friends, but I’m nothing if but a little voice of reason.

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fondazione
12 hours ago, Cas9 said:

Who are you talking to, Wilso or Monique? It appears you're talking to Monique but just wanted to make sure.

It was Wilso but her quote disappeared!

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hopeing

I masturbated earlier in the week and I now have a small circle of vesicles on my palm. I never had anything like this in my life before herpes.
Diagnosed GHSV2 4 years ago, and probably a carrier for more like 7 years.
How can this be explained if auto-inoculation is so effective ? The skin on my palm isn't even broken, and my penis isn't what I'd call an active outbreak, but the skin since infection has never really been the same. Its like I have low level shedding 50% of days.

I really would love to believe some of Wilsos advice, but what I've  experienced really doesn't seem to match at all.

I'd really like to have a partner in future, but days like this I really can't see how its possible. 
If I can't even not reinfect myself, what chance does a discordant partner have?

I wouldn't say I am immunosuppressed, but I do worry about such things when people say how 'impossible' reinfection is, I've not had sex for 4 years and had multiple HIV tests during the first year of diagnosis.

Edited by hopeing

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Cas9
6 hours ago, hopeing said:

I masturbated earlier in the week and I now have a small circle of vesicles on my palm. I never had anything like this in my life before herpes.
Diagnosed GHSV2 4 years ago, and probably a carrier for more like 7 years.
How can this be explained if auto-inoculation is so effective ? The skin on my palm isn't even broken, and my penis isn't what I'd call an active outbreak, but the skin since infection has never really been the same. Its like I have low level shedding 50% of days.

I really would love to believe some of Wilsos advice, but what I've  experienced really doesn't seem to match at all.

I'd really like to have a partner in future, but days like this I really can't see how its possible. 
If I can't even not reinfect myself, what chance does a discordant partner have?

I wouldn't say I am immunosuppressed, but I do worry about such things when people say how 'impossible' reinfection is, I've not had sex for 4 years and had multiple HIV tests during the first year of diagnosis.

Every case should be examined thoroughly. Therefore, I would not dismiss your case out of hand (pun intended), like some people might, without at least hearing the evidence. You may have reinfected yourself or you may not have. Don't automatically believe that because these vesicles appeared after masturbating, that they are hsv related.

- Please describe the vesicles.
- Is there any nerve pain?
- Did you use oil to masturbate?
- How long after you masturbated did the vesicles show up?

See my point? i.e. please provide any circumstantial evidence that you have.

In my case, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. That said, an actual swab has not been performed, so I can't say that my reinfection is a fact.
All I can say is that I believevery strongly, that I have been reinfected; i.e. it's my opinion, based on the evidence. If you would like me to share that evidence, I will.

Edited by Cas9

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hopeing

In the past I have had similar on my finger, also probably from masturbation, but I probably did finger the girl I caught this from at some point so i can't prove that is reinfection.

This time its palm of my hand which I think was definitely not an initial infection point. The vesicles are identical to what I often get on my penis, I never had any symptom like this otherwise my whole life.

I never use lubrication.

There is no nerve pain on my hand.

I masturbate fairly often, so its impossible to link them specifically to an event such as that anyway. I would guess they appeared 1-3 days afterward depending on which event caused them.

I don't really care if other people believe me or not, but I possibly have multiple cases now just from my own personal experience. I would say that its definitely possible and fairly easy to reinfect, no idea why anyone would say its hard. Some things are hard to prove 100%, you can keep saying the evidence is circumstantial, seems to me lot people treat herpes like that for some reason, maybe because its untreatable, maybe because its highly prevalent, I don't know. 

I wish people had warned me before, maybe I could done something about it.

Edited by hopeing

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Cas9
3 hours ago, hopeing said:

In the past I have had similar on my finger, also probably from masturbation, but I probably did finger the girl I caught this from at some point so i can't prove that is reinfection.

This time its palm of my hand which I think was definitely not an initial infection point. The vesicles are identical to what I often get on my penis, I never had any symptom like this otherwise my whole life.

I never use lubrication.

There is no nerve pain on my hand.

I masturbate fairly often, so its impossible to link them specifically to an event such as that anyway. I would guess they appeared 1-3 days afterward depending on which event caused them.

I don't really care if other people believe me or not, but I possibly have multiple cases now just from my own personal experience. I would say that its definitely possible and fairly easy to reinfect, no idea why anyone would say its hard. Some things are hard to prove 100%, you can keep saying the evidence is circumstantial, seems to me lot people treat herpes like that for some reason, maybe because its untreatable, maybe because its highly prevalent, I don't know. 

I wish people had warned me before, maybe I could done something about it.

The reason it's hard to reinfect is because after the initial infection, your body develops hsv antibodies, which are very effective. But if you are immunocompromised, then you can reinfect. It would be a combination of the degree that you are immunocompromised and the amount of virus involved.

In your case, I can't say for sure one way or the other if you've been reinfected. The fact that the vesicles match with your ghsv2, increases the chances, but it's also possible that it could be a skin condition that resembles herpes. You stated that you have no nerve pain. That would have certainly decreased the odds that it's hsv, however, it does not rule out hsv. How about a tingling sensation? I take it you don't have any?

Have you seen a doctor for this issue? Does it blister? If so, you can get a swab.

Edited by Cas9

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Cas9

@hopeing

I'll add one other thing.

You said that it happened after masturbating. It's important to note that you said you masturbated a lot. That alone increases the chances that the sores on your hand are not from masturbating. Do you see what I mean by that? I'm not saying that they couldn't be from masturbating, I'm just saying that it decreases the odds.

Edited by Cas9

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hopeing

I work weekdays everyday in a big city 70 miles from my main doctor.

I've given up going to doctors for the moment.

No its on my hand it wont blister.

I don't generally get lot nerve pain from my herpes except in my mouth or if there are large sores on my penis.

I don't know what it is, yes if it was 100% reliable I'd get weekly reinfection, so it can't be if that is what it is, but if its 1/300 chance, then it would match the sort of thing.

Edited by hopeing

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Cas9
1 minute ago, hopeing said:

I work weekdays everyday in a big city 70 miles from my main doctor.

I've given up going to doctors for the moment.

No its on my hand it wont blister.

I don't generally get lot nerve pain from my herpes except in my mouth or if there are large sores on my penis.

Yes, my sores don't blister either which is why I haven't been swabbed. They could do a biopsy but I don't want them digging a hole in my finger. All I ask is that I get one blister so I can confirm.

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hopeing

This is the kind of thing i get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpetic_whitlow

Its obvious enough to me it looks like this kind of thing, but to a casual  onlooker, they wouldn't even notice, it would be hard to even get a good photo.

I'm talking about the vesicle bit about the nail, not the nail.

I can see it in the light, and feel the vesicles with my finger on the palm, but its not super noticeable.

Generally if its like on my finger before, it will hang around for 1-2 weeks then disappear without blistering.

My GHSV2 symptoms were like this on my penis for the first 3 years.

Untitled.png

Edited by hopeing

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Cas9
16 minutes ago, hopeing said:

This is the kind of thing i get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpetic_whitlow

Its obvious enough to me it looks like this kind of thing, but to a casual  onlooker, they wouldn't even notice, it would be hard to even get a good photo.

I'm talking about the vesicle bit about the nail, not the nail.

I can see it in the light, and feel the vesicles with my finger on the palm, but its not super noticeable.

Generally if its like on my finger before, it will hang around for 1-2 weeks then disappear without blistering.

My GHSV2 symptoms were like this on my penis for the first 3 years.

Untitled.png

Yes, I saw this same photo when searching for whitlow photos. And it is about 80% the same as what I get also. All I'm saying is that there are other skin conditions that can look like that.

By the way, I don't want you to think that I don't think you have whitlow; that's not what I'm saying.  I think there's at least a 50% chance that you do. But I just don't want to say that you definitely have it because it could be something else.

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Jay2255

Logically even if you were infected and were intimate with someone with the same strain their virus would enter your body and vice versus but what happens after that?

Does that increase the amount of virus in your body and possibly a slightly different strain?

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hk81

Well, I've been reading these posts about the fact that self-infection is unlikely and I have to say that it's a big lie.

Even though self-infection may be more difficult than primary infection, it is totally possible.

As also vaccines are never 100% protective against a viral infection, the same should be for antibodies produced after the primary infection.

If the contact with the infected area is inevitable and it happens often, then I think that the chances for the virus to evade the immune system in another part of the body (after contact) is high.

 

I had exactly the same case as hopeing: primary infection on the genitals. Inevitable frequent contact with the hands because of washing, toilette, and other stuff.

3 years after the primary infection, I have started to see blisters also on my right hand, at different times. I always get a new blister on a different finger/location of the same hand, but never on the left one.

I have never ever had these symptoms before and i'm able to recognize a herpes blister from other skin conditions.

 

I personally find quite annoying to read comments of people discrediting others without having seen their condition, or supporting partially wrong informations, exposing people to wrong beliefs that could make their condition worst.

I would recommend not to challenge a possible reinfection, by having a proper hygiene and not touching an infected area often, especially if you touch it with dry skin / get in contact with liquid from the blisters / help the viral copies to be transported by a viscous medium like oil or body fluids.

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WilsoInAus

Hey @hk81 Im sorry but you MUST challenge the notion of reinfection until you know. Whether that’s annoying or not isn’t the issue.

Blisters by definition are not unique to herpes and may have a more serious and more infectious cause. They cannot be identified as any particular cause without a swab. It might be chicken pox for example.

You know the golden rule “don’t guess, get a swab”!

Of course a person should take care around active outbreaks but have confidence if they do so that self inoculation will be highly unlikely. There is no known documented case of self inoculation in a healthy person.

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hk81

I did not get a swab yet, but my doctor agreed that they look like herpes blisters. I will also try to talk to specialists of infectious diseases.

I had chicken pox as a child, so it could only be herpes zoster. But it's even less likely to get it in the late 30ies.

The probability that it is a self-inoculation is rather high, being it limited to the only part of the body that gets in contact to my genitals.

 

I have read some articles mentioning the possibility of self-infection. If I find them again, I will post them.

You may have already seen the very old article (it was in the 80s, I think), in which people were inoculated in the lab with liquid from their own blisters in another part of the body and they developed blisters also there.

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WilsoInAus

Hey @hk81 I wouldn’t go there! I’m guessing you mean the 1950s when, go figure, some doctors thought it was a good idea to deliberately infect another region of your body with HSV to somehow activate the immune system better and reduce outbreaks. 
The issue here of course is that they’d inject directly into the sensory nerves! And of course these patients had a weaker immune system with high frequency of outbreaks. Even then, it didn’t always work first time, it might take a few goes to achieve it. 
In the end, that’s pretty creepy and a banner practice today. 
I am not aware of an inoculation “in the wild” outside of contrived (madness) in a lab.

There a handful of cases of inoculation within the window period of immune development.

In the end, there is no place to be cavalier regarding an outbreak. Stay sensible and a little vigilant  and certainly stay away from syringes! Observing this will see you readily minimise your risk to zero risk or negligible.

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hk81

mm, it could be that I have spread it during the window period, since it took a long time to have the right diagnosis and become aware of the problem; I wasn't as careful as I am now. So apparently it remained silent for 3 years and it has decided to awake in my hand recently.

Do you know how long is this window period for the development of antibodies?

I'm still hunting for a diagnosis of a possible eye infection that I got from the same person, 4 - 6 weeks before getting a clear herpes infection in the genital area (a very painful primary outbreak, diagnosed 1 year later - doctors' incompetence). I might have rubbed my eyes at that time.

Getting a diagnosis of herpes in the eye is quite difficult (I think), unless I get a clear ulcer that can be swabbed. But unluckily the few times that I had it, the eye doctors were so superficial to decide to save the money for the test and experiment on me with bacterial drops and steroids (so stupid!). So I am wondering if I should still pursue the hunt for a diagnosis of a possible eye herpes.

Edited by hk81

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blurneworder
3 hours ago, hk81 said:

mm, it could be that I have spread it during the window period, since it took a long time to have the right diagnosis and become aware of the problem; I wasn't as careful as I am now. So apparently it remained silent for 3 years and it has decided to awake in my hand recently.

Do you know how long is this window period for the development of antibodies?

I'm still hunting for a diagnosis of a possible eye infection that I got from the same person, 4 - 6 weeks before getting a clear herpes infection in the genital area (a very painful primary outbreak, diagnosed 1 year later - doctors' incompetence). I might have rubbed my eyes at that time.

Getting a diagnosis of herpes in the eye is quite difficult (I think), unless I get a clear ulcer that can be swabbed. But unluckily the few times that I had it, the eye doctors were so superficial to decide to save the money for the test and experiment on me with bacterial drops and steroids (so stupid!). So I am wondering if I should still pursue the hunt for a diagnosis of a possible eye herpes.

Why do you think you had it in the eye?

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hk81

Because the same person caused me a diagnosed genital infection one month later. The first time, after 2 days of our affair, I had what is called "marginal corneal ulcer", that is a sort of blister between the cornea and the sclera. It healed a few days later. Then it came back 3 months later.

No significant symptoms for a long time. Then, at distance of 2 years, I had other 3 recurrences with ulcers, most of the times always in the same place where I had it the first time, but once also in the other eye.

Since these last recurrences, I started to have red eyes, mostly after exposure to sun or wind. All the time it looks like conjunctivitis (the eye is red on the conjunctiva). Each week one eye gets significantly more inflamed than the other and the blood vessels propagate until the border with the cornea. Occasionally pain from the back of the eye, like emicrania but localized only in the left or right half of my head.

Ulcers are common to different eye conditions, as well as inflammation. So it's difficult for eye doctors to make a clear diagnosis of the cause. I believe that, for herpes, it would be possible only if there is a distinctive symptom like dendritic ulcers. But at that time the infection has already had a bad progress.

 

I can't be 100% sure about what happened. But seeing that it has become chronic and the symptoms are the same of what I had immediately after being with this person and blood vessels often connect to that exact point of the first infection, I start to believe that there are too many coincidences and they lead me to think that it is herpes.

The only thing that confuses me is how I could get it in the eye first and 4 - 6 weeks later get a bad infection in the genitals. Is it such a bad luck that my antibodies did not develop yet?

 

What makes me even more frustrated is that as soon as I had the eye ulcer, I went to a generic doctor and asked if that could be herpes. Without referring to an eye specialist or taking a swab, she said that it was a bacterial infection. I could have got a prescription of ACV to reduce the copies of the virus in the neurons and I could have had a hint about having been with an infective liar. But apparently I have to suffer for the mistakes and lies of the others.

 

Edited by hk81

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