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watashiwa

minimising transmission risks in unprotected sex

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watashiwa

hi, I might be asking something really stupid with regard to minimising risks (regardless of hsv type) so please educate me.

  • the aim is to have children with a hsv negative female partner
  • measures to take:
    • Slightly higher daily suppressive dosage: 1g Valtrex for 5 days before sex
    • Application of acyclovir cream on genitals for 2 hours before sex
    • Covered boxer shorts area
    • Condom with small hole at the tip

I know the risks are always present and some members feel that the percentages are low as it is but I am wondering if extra precaution taken will lower it further.

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WilsoInAus

Well the hole is not likely to work well; once compromised condoms tend to rip right open.

Therr is nothing more pragmatically you can do than the above. It is likely your stress is the largest contributor to a higher shedding level!

Relax man; love is through thick and thin!

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watashiwa

@WilsoInAus, I have not disclosed and am too afraid to do so. She might not be able to handle it.

I made a mistake in life in engaging unprotected oral 2 weeks back and the ulcer just showed up on my glans. 

We don't have sex often but we'd like to have children very much. 

Edited by watashiwa

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WilsoInAus

Your choice of course. But it isn't normal when trying to have children to walk into the bedroom wearing a holy condom and a pair of boxer shorts (or whatever you're using as a barrier) having snuck off some time earlier to smear acyclovir cream on you. You can see that that isn't quite normal, right?

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watashiwa

I know what you mean. I'm at a loss right now and am unable to function properly. 

Given that it was the only one time I did it and there were no sores, I am not sure of I am a believer of the low transmission risks now.

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Divon

Haha yeah what the hell? You would take all these procautions and not disclose? I mean normally I´m quite supportive and understanding when someone says that they don´t want to disclose because of various reasons but this is insane.

What will you respond when she asks why you wear boxers and a condom with a hole?

There is also the risk that if you infect her just before pregnancy that the child be damaged from HSV if she isn´t screened for it during pregnancy. It is often said that to minimize that the mother needs to have developed antibodies to HSV well before pregnancy.

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Quest

what if you got your immune system purring?

You have a very good chance she has hsv I as well? Does Ghsv I really like to go from genital to genital?

I tried to get my bf to put on boxer briefs. He said it was too weird, so you probably need to pretend like you have some sort of latex fetish. (I have II and he has I. He wasn't willing to let go of the R. We are both in sexless marriages. After a well over a decade I told my H that I could no longer be sexless and that I would be  stepping out of the M for sex) Who's choice is it to be sexless? Sexless = less than ten x a year. 

We rub coconut oil on each other's trunks. We spray our trunks with zinc sulfate first, dry, then oil. I have zinc in my lube because it disarms viruses.  He loves Sagami .002 condoms, but would prefer bare. Get the large size because they run too small for 6" +

I do understand wanting to be ultra safe. My bf gets mad and says I wish you would have never found out you had hsv II because we would have been bare by now. The last 10 minutes of sex he wants to be bare. Sometimes I let him 

Do you really know your/her status?

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watashiwa

I know it sounds absurd, not that I would go through all of those measures. 

I know her status, hence my thoughts what's on approaches of what's possible to reduce transmission.

With regards to genital-to-genital HSV1 transmission, there's a lot of mixed feedback.

  • Terri Warren says she's never encountered it
  • but forum members anecdotal experience is that it's possible.

With regards to OHSV1 prevalence:

  • Reports state that most of the population have OHSV1; most likely when they were kissed by adults
  • However, some posts here state that it would require the more passionate type of kissing to transmit
    • I don't think most kids receive kisses that way
    • Do majority of the adults kiss kids when they just had cold sores?

@Quest, we all want to protect our loved ones to the best of our ability. I constantly wish I can turn back time but I also need to think of the way forward. 

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watashiwa

A personal opinion of mine is that most are quick to throw "low risk" stats but should transmission occur, they would hide behind "asymptomatic shedding, it's unfortunate". 

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Quest

It is nice you want to do your best to protect. 

I am guessing most people don't even understand Asymptomatic shedding. 

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watashiwa

I think most people do understand the concept of asymptomatic shedding.

I just read a paper which hypothesises that asymptomatic shedding while under suppressive therapy is a result of a few cumulative viral re-activations rather than a single re-activation. 

Hence I am thinking that this might be cyclical where once the peak is reached and the virus retreats. The problem is now in identifying the cycle.

 

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Scooby2112
16 hours ago, watashiwa said:

I know it sounds absurd, not that I would go through all of those measures. 

I know her status, hence my thoughts what's on approaches of what's possible to reduce transmission.

With regards to genital-to-genital HSV1 transmission, there's a lot of mixed feedback.

Genital to genital hsv1 is significantly harder than oral to genital.  Why? Site of preference.  Hsv1 prefers oral infections.  Orally it recurs 2-4 times a year and sheds asymptomaticly about 20% of the time.  

Genitally it occurs on average 0.7 times a year.  With 40% never having a second outbreak.  Shedding asymptomaticly is also much lower 3-5% (or 10-20 days in an entire year) some of this shedding events could be as little as 3 hours and/or not have enough virus to transmit as well.  

So is it possible.  Yes.  Are the odds low? Yes.  But odds are fickle things, just like you would win the lottery so too could you be that small percentage chance that it passes.  

  • Terri Warren says she's never encountered it
  • but forum members anecdotal experience is that it's possible.

With regards to OHSV1 prevalence

Also understand that the Igg for HSV1 misses 30 % of positive tests.  That means people are told they are negative but they are not.  That's a high percentage when compared to western blot.  :

  • Reports state that most of the population have OHSV1; most likely when they were kissed by adults
  • However, some posts here state that it would require the more passionate type of kissing to transmit
    • I don't think most kids receive kisses that way
    • Do majority of the adults kiss kids when they just had cold sores?

I believe you can get it from a less than passioned kiss.  Depends on. The state of the infection.  With an active lesion it takes little contact.  With asymptomatic sheddingaybe a little more.   This is speculation.  Remember that kids when they are young also stuff everything in their mouth.  

@Quest, we all want to protect our loved ones to the best of our ability. I constantly wish I can turn back time but I also need to think of the way forward. 

 

See above for my comments.  I am sorry if I missed it but how were you diagnosed?  You said you had an ulcer but did you get it swabbed?  One ulcer on the penis is hardly conclusive.  Especially if it never blistered.  

Lots of things can cause that including saliva with yeast/bacteria from an aggressive BJ.  

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watashiwa

@Scooby2112, yes, I got it swabbed and will know the results in a week.

The thing is that I had not taken notice if it blistered. It was located behind the frenulum area which I did not check until I found it in this state. 

I believe most members are of the same sentiment that HSV2 OB symptoms are mild. Would this be something possible?

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Scooby2112

It is possible to have a mild outbreak but if your exposure was from Oral then you are most likely talking about HSV1.  HSV1 is said is more likely to have a typical and more severe initial outbreak.  

Hsv2 if you already have hsv1 can tend to be much milder due to AB crossover protection. There may also be some herpes naive individuals that get a minor outbreak for the first time as well. Really hard to tell.  

Verify the type of swab test.  Was it PCR? Or culture? A negative swab means not detected not that you are negative.  Would have been good to get a blood test right away and then you could know if you had hsv1 prior to this encounter.  

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watashiwa

@Scooby2112, it was a PCR swab. The blood test is a good idea and I'll seek it out. 

Regardless, I have been thinking about reducing transmission and wonder if there is an avenue that for males, heat application to the genital area might damage the virus sufficiently. Which in turns reduces the chance of transmission.

I am looking into how much hot it would be. Anything that burns is of course a no-go.

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Scooby2112

But new virus would continue to come up if you were shedding.  If you weren't then heat is of no value.  

I think you need to see the result of the PCR and the blood test.  Before going crazy.  

If you are hsv1 pos.  Then AVs and avoiding sex during symptoms will give a very low transmission rate.  

Without condoms or AVs Hsv1 genital is about 2.5% chance after 100 sex acts.  With AVs it would be about 1.25% in 100 acts.  Which is pretty low.  

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watashiwa

@Scooby2112, so in similar fashion, the acyclovir cream would not work once it is rubbed off? 

At this point I can only wait. 

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Scooby2112

Acyclovir cream is basically expensive crap.  

It was proven to not shorten or affect breakouts.  

If it doesn't affect breakouts I can't imagine it does much for prevention.  

Your best bet is minimize friction, use a lube.  Friction helps work the virus into the skin.  

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watashiwa

@Scooby2112, I Guess that’s the extent of what we can do. I pray that my swabs come back negative.

regardless, I still believe that the specific outcome can be achieved. I want to explore this because it’s something that can give people hope.

 

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Scooby2112

Many discordant couples go years (10+) without transmission.  

AVs help and paying attention to your body and the signs of a pre outbreak.  (Prodrome).  

You are typically most infectious in the first year.  Then it gets less Frequent and therefore less likely to transmit.  

First need to see the test results and then consider what those implications are.  

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watashiwa

@Scooby2112, definitely. I believe that as years go by, the rate of shedding will drop to very low levels. 26% in year 1, 13% in the following years.

My current thoughts 

  • Prodrome - No action
  • OB - No action
  • 1 week after OB - No action
  • Use higher dosage AV for 6 days (additional day to maintain peak efficiency)
  • Use lube to minimise friction
  • Time for the most fertile timing
  • No fap to increase semen volume
  • Climax asap to reduce exposure time

Here's a recent informative paper in 2016 that covers most aspects of HSV http://cmr.asm.org/content/29/1/149.full#ref-92

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LiveLife100

@watashiwa. You asked me to comment here as I have 2 children with my spouse & partner of 18 years and he remains negative. Here is the thing... there isn't a secret. Maybe we got lucky? Hard to say. I will say I'm pretty in tune with my body and would always avoid intimacy if I felt "off". But for the most part? We both accepted it and hardly thought about it at all. This allowed us to relax and let nature take its course. If I was stressed about passing this on all the time I doubt I would have been able to get pregnant! Stress also can lead to more OBs for many people....

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Quest

I think all newcomers should read this thread.

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WilsoInAus

Well hang on a minute, there is still much to know here. Who if anyone of the OP and his partner actually has HSV-2?

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watashiwa

@WilsoInAus

My partner is HSV negative. I'm still awaiting swab results on a lesion I found.

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