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NewToTheHive

Old vs new infection

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NewToTheHive
Posted (edited)

So I am still awaiting test results to confirm my diagnosis, but my doctor said she will also be able to tell if this is a new or old infection. Does anyone know how they can tell? 

 

Also, does anyone know the parameters on old and new? Is new considered anything acquired in the last year, month, or week?  Is old considered a month or more, or a year or more?  I’m trying to pinpoint exactly where I got this. 

I have only been with two people since December (which was the last time I got tested, but apparently wasn’t tested for hsv). One man I was dating. We broke up about a month and a half ago, and got back together about two weeks ago. About 4 days after we had sex again for the first time, I had a little bit of a sore vulva (I attributed this to being because we had sex for the first time in a while, and he is VERY well endowed. When we first started dating it took a few times for me to even enjoy the sex because he was so big.) well we ended up having sex that night even with a sore vulva (everything looked normal) but entry was extremely painful (I now think i had some sores starting to develop that I didn’t see) 

with that being said, in between our break up, I totally forgot but I did hook up with someone one time. About two weeks prior to getting back together with my ex. With the guy I hooked up with, he did give me oral (and I didn’t see any sores on his mouth or anything, and we did kiss, so I would think if I got it from him, it would be oral hsv1) and we did have sex, but used a condom (isn’t it very unlikely to get hsv if a condom is involved?)  with the guy I’m dating, we didn’t use protection, because we had both gotten std tested when we first started dating. 

It seems to me, that this is a new infection that I got from my ex after we had sex for the first time again. Because I read 4 days is the average time for a breakout after a new infection.

if I didn’t get it from him, since we had sex the day before my sores appeared, and entry was painful, I’m sure he would have contracted it from me then right? 

 

I have spoken to the guy I hooked up with, and he stated he’s never had cold sores or penile sores, and stated he never has sex without a condom ...so I feel kind of doubtful that I got it from him.  I Also wouldn’t doubt it in the slightest if while we were broken up, my man hooked up with someone, acquired it, and then gave it to me. 

 

With how severe my symptoms are, I’m going to assume (until I get test results) that this is a new infection with my first break out. I have sores inside (even on my cervix) a few outside, and 2 by my Anus. My guy and I never had anal, but those are all areas that the head of his penis has rubbed up against, where as the guy who wore a condom, his skin has never touched mine in any of those areas 

 

Feedback appreciated! 

Edited by NewToTheHive

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NewToTheHive

Anyone have any information about any of this that could help me? 

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WilsoInAus

The following conditions are confirmation of a recent infectiion:

- positive swab, preferably typed; AND

- negative IgG test for that type.

Do not let anyone tell you that IgM testing can also confirm a new infection, it quite often does not.

In terms of source, you can only start with the person (or people) you had sex with 2-6 days before the sores started.

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NewToTheHive

@WilsoInAus Yes, My doctor is running IGM and told me she could tell me if it’s old or new.

but my question is how do they define “new”? Say I contracted it 2 months ago and just now am having a breakout, is that “new” or “old”?

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Quest

One can't tell exactly when they got the infection. Terri Warren will tell you that the IGM is useless and doctors will disagree because even though it may be useless for typing HSV it's not useless to tell you that you have a new infection. Even if they are not always accurate they are just a roadmap. She will argue that it is not an indicator of HSV and she is right, but don't we want to know if we have another type of infection? And when you have a new infection it can be anywhere  in your body and doctors look for any type of infection. IGM doesn't tell you what type of infection it is, that is why they get two types of tests and sometimes an entire pannel of tests. Terri Warren is only focused on HSV and I think that is a mistake to do that, even though I like her work. Just my opinion. If I recall it picks up proteins that are the same size and therefore can be inaccurate, but why not use everything at our disposal!

"While IgM is an indicator of a current infection, an IgG indicates a recent or pastexposure to the illness. IgM is the first antibody that the body produces in an acute infection. It is approximately six times larger than IgG and is multivalent. This means that it has multiple binding sites.Apr 12, 2018

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NewToTheHive

So when then say it’s a “new infection” there’s no even ballpark guess on what new means? I know they can’t tell me a date, but just want to know if there’s a way that I can tell if it’s “new” if I’ve had it for a few months, or if I contracted it within the last 2 weeks 

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WilsoInAus
1 hour ago, NewToTheHive said:

@WilsoInAus Yes, My doctor is running IGM and told me she could tell me if it’s old or new.

but my question is how do they define “new”? Say I contracted it 2 months ago and just now am having a breakout, is that “new” or “old”?

A lot of doctors still do this test, but the IgM has little dignostic value. Surely th doctor will have also requested IgG testing then you can apply the ruleset described above regarding the swab and IgG tests.

When you have a a bad initial outbreak such as what you describe, then there is virually no other possibility other than being infected in the days beforehand. The reason being of course is that you have no immune defences targeted at HSV (1/2) hence it can run riot. 

It simply isn’t at all feasible to be infected than have the initial bad outbreak 2 months later.

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Quest
Posted (edited)

 

#Say your igG comes back negative. That means your body has not built up antibodies. Precious few never build any. An igG will be typed.)

# then your IgM comes back positive.( Recent infection possibly bacteria, toxin, or VIRUS) Warren doesn't like this test, but doctors do because even though it won't tell them what type of infection it is, it tells a doc to put on a detective hat and look in those three areas and not give up just because they don't have an igG number, yet. They can order a swab for bacteria...

# let's say your swab comes back negative. ETA If you waited over two-3 days it may come back negative even though you may be positive for HSV (if it was positive it would be typed-current infection and it will be typed I or 2

 

 

IgM is a temporary antibody that disappears within two or three weeks. It is then replaced by IgG which lasts for life and provides lasting immunity to the person.

Summary:
1. IgM is the immediate antibody that is produced once a human body is exposed to a bacteria, virus or a toxin
2. IgG is found throughout the body, mainly in most of the bodily fluids, while IgM is found mainly in the blood and lymphatic fluids.
3. IgM is larger in size compared to IgG
4. IgM is temporary and disappears after a few weeks. It is then replaced by IgG.

Make a pact to not blame yourself or others! Nothing fruitful comes from blame or shame not that you will do it but a lot of people may need to read this.  I personally hate the word  "Giver" 80% of people don't know they have it and they can be givers! But we can encounter cruelty!:pcwhack:

Read more: Difference Between IgM and IgG | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/science/health/difference-between-igm-and-igg/#ixzz5Nq1iJi3q

Edited by Quest
This is why planned Parenthood will refuse to give numbers. We are all victims!

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NewToTheHive

Ok. So now I have another question. My  testing came back that showed I had a bacterial infection (that’s what the office called and said and they put me on an antibiotic ) So that means my IGM would be positive even if I hadn’t contracted herpes then right? Because the bacterial infection still a new infection. And if I have IGG then that definitely means the herpes is an old infection? Because it takes weeks to develope it?

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WilsoInAus

There is no diagnostic value in an IgM test, positive or negative. Many people upon infection do not produce detectable IgM antibodies or do so sporadically - from say day 7 to 40 in relation to that outbreak. Some people also produce IgM antibodies to HSV throughout their lives, again sporadically.

Please junk the IgM and rely only on the swab and IgG.

The blood tests react to HSV antibodies and sometimes some other proteins but not to bacterial immune entities.

If your IgG is firmly positive, then yes it’s many weeks if not years old. If you’re positive to HSV-1 this is probably a childhood oral infection.

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Quest
38 minutes ago, NewToTheHive said:

Ok. So now I have another question. My  testing came back that showed I had a bacterial infection (that’s what the office called and said and they put me on an antibiotic ) So that means my IGM would be positive even if I hadn’t contracted herpes then right? Because the bacterial infection still a new infection. And if I have IGG then that definitely means the herpes is an old infection? Because it takes weeks to develope it?

Correct. But remember the IgM will only give a partial view. That is probably why they did the IgM. Remember that HSV can throw the body s immunity off while it is working on any type of infections, the body will be prone to bacterial infections because of low immunity (at that specific point in time) Now, if you already knew you had HSV and it was a tiny ob, say a few clustered blisters, and hadn't been with someone in over a year, and had no other complaints. Your doc would probably just pull an IgG and see which type you had.

If you do any work for a hospital part of the test every six months is IgM and IgG. Why would a professional hospital do this to employees?  They are just fishing.

I guarantee you if your doctor had not found a bacterial infection your doctor would have gone fishing for something else because you hit a positive igG! And I really think that is the smart way to go, just in case you're dealing with several things. I agree if you're only looking for HSV IgG with a swab if it hasn't been over three days would be the way to go.

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NewToTheHive

She definitely mentioned IGM, I’m not sure if she mentioned testing IGG or not. But she did tell me she would be able to tell me what type of hsv it is, and if it is a new or old infection.

i got both swabs and blood work 2 days after unclers appeared, so 4 days after the very first symptoms, and about 8-9 days after what I believe was my exposure date. I did not know prior to this that I had HSV, I actually didn’t even remotely suspect it and was totally shocked when she told me she thinks I have it 

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