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friendlyboy

My small informal trial re Zn(O2COOH3)2

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friendlyboy

Background:

I've been infected since Feb 2017, symptomatic since May 2017, on suppressive treatment ever since, suffering from extremely frequent symptoms (OBs), as frequent as daily or bi-daily even with suppressive treatment.

Symptoms are the usual pimple-like or folliculitis-like lesions on both inner thighs and occasionally other places from buttocks to knees, which under suppressive treatment usually don't fully develop into blistering lesions.

I've been using Zinc Acetate in several ways ever since first symptoms appeared, inconsistently, firstly as an oral supplement which didn't seem to have any effect, later as a topical application which I wasn't convinced it was of much use though it seemed somewhat beneficial.

As my current stash of Zn(O2COOH3)2 solution was getting close to depletion, I was pondering whether it was worth the effort of preparing more and keep using it.

Since earlier this year I had an unusual 2 month symptom free period, and I think I was consistently topically applying zinc acetate, I decided to run a controlled, as much as I could, experiment to see whether it had any measurable effect or not, actually expecting it not to have any effect.

The trial:

Open-label, no placebo control, crossover trial of topical application of 3% zinc acetate solution on the inner thigh of one leg for one month and no treatment of the other leg under suppressive treatment 250 mg valacyclovir each 8 h, lasting 2 months. Expected result is no difference between treated and untreated.

The experiment would have been better controlled with blinding and a placebo, but zinc acetate solution has a distinct smell so it is not possible to hide which bottle has the solution unless you use another similar smelly acetate salt (such as sodium acetate), which I didn't have available and didn't want to bother looking for it just for this test. I also would have needed a friend to help me prepare the bottles so I wouldn't know which one is which.

Treatment protocol: apply with the hand 2-3 drops of solution on the skin in the area usually affected by lesions rubbing until almost dry, once daily before going to bed or just after showering.

Observed results: around 9-12 lesions were observed daily on the untreated leg after 5-7 days of stopping treatment on that leg, no lesions were observed in the treated area on the opposite leg for the entire month, 1-2 lesions appeared on the treated leg outside the treated area, lesions took around 7 days to disappear after starting treatment on the untreated leg. The same pattern repeated after switching legs.

Observed side effects: very slight erithema after application lasting less than an hour. Slight itching shortly after application on active lesions, lasting around an hour.

Conclusion: treatment seems to have an influence on preventing the appearance of lesions in this particular case. This influence may be marginal and not strong enough to make a difference in other cases.

Possible mechanisms I hypothesize for this effect are:

- Zn2+ ions crossing the skin improve immune response, perhaps by providing micro-nutrients in-place for immune cell replication.

- Zinc acetate draws immune cells closer to the epidermis somehow, perhaps by being slightly irritant, therefore improving immune response on skin viral infection.

- Rubbing the skin increases blood flow through the dermis, allowing more immune cells to reach the skin resulting on increased infiltration upon detection of viral infection.

Edited by friendlyboy

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Quest

Zinc lactate is supposed to be most effective on HSV 2  92%?  Has to be ordered from a chemical company.

Zinc gluconate works best for hsv1.

DontJuan had a thread on this. I think it was a zinc sulfate thread. It was really interesting to me and I do use it off and on. I was going to order the zinc lactate which is harder to mix in water, but I'm not sure I really need it anymore with my protocol.

Thanks for the information!

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Phoenixx

I remember you were very critical about topical treatments. I like the scientific approach.

Do you think that treatment is also ok on penis mucosa or too harsh? Where did you get the zinc acetate?

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friendlyboy
8 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

I remember you were very critical about topical treatments. I like the scientific approach.

Do you think that treatment is also ok on penis mucosa or too harsh? Where did you get the zinc acetate?

 I got the zinc acetate from an pharmacy in my town, they can't sell reagents but I know the pharmacist. I cost me about 10 € a 50 gr bottle, enough for a decade at the current rate of consumtion. Otherwise it is quite easy to get, you can buy it from a laboratory or even in ebay.

I apply the treatment on my glans about 2-3 times a week, I've never had any problem or adverse effect so far.

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VladimirM
On 9/17/2018 at 8:39 PM, friendlyboy said:

Background:

I've been infected since Feb 2017, symptomatic since May 2017, on suppressive treatment ever since, suffering from extremely frequent symptoms (OBs), as frequent as daily or bi-daily even with suppressive treatment.

Symptoms are the usual pimple-like or folliculitis-like lesions on both inner thighs and occasionally other places from buttocks to knees, which under suppressive treatment usually don't fully develop into blistering lesions.

I've been using Zinc Acetate in several ways ever since first symptoms appeared, inconsistently, firstly as an oral supplement which didn't seem to have any effect, later as a topical application which I wasn't convinced it was of much use though it seemed somewhat beneficial.

As my current stash of Zn(O2COOH3)2 solution was getting close to depletion, I was pondering whether it was worth the effort of preparing more and keep using it.

Since earlier this year I had an unusual 2 month symptom free period, and I think I was consistently topically applying zinc acetate, I decided to run a controlled, as much as I could, experiment to see whether it had any measurable effect or not, actually expecting it not to have any effect.

The trial:

Open-label, no placebo control, crossover trial of topical application of 3% zinc acetate solution on the inner thigh of one leg for one month and no treatment of the other leg under suppressive treatment 250 mg valacyclovir each 8 h, lasting 2 months. Expected result is no difference between treated and untreated.

The experiment would have been better controlled with blinding and a placebo, but zinc acetate solution has a distinct smell so it is not possible to hide which bottle has the solution unless you use another similar smelly acetate salt (such as sodium acetate), which I didn't have available and didn't want to bother looking for it just for this test. I also would have needed a friend to help me prepare the bottles so I wouldn't know which one is which.

Treatment protocol: apply with the hand 2-3 drops of solution on the skin in the area usually affected by lesions rubbing until almost dry, once daily before going to bed or just after showering.

Observed results: around 9-12 lesions were observed daily on the untreated leg after 5-7 days of stopping treatment on that leg, no lesions were observed in the treated area on the opposite leg for the entire month, 1-2 lesions appeared on the treated leg outside the treated area, lesions took around 7 days to disappear after starting treatment on the untreated leg. The same pattern repeated after switching legs.

Observed side effects: very slight erithema after application lasting less than an hour. Slight itching shortly after application on active lesions, lasting around an hour.

Conclusion: treatment seems to have an influence on preventing the appearance of lesions in this particular case. This influence may be marginal and not strong enough to make a difference in other cases.

Possible mechanisms I hypothesize for this effect are:

- Zn2+ ions crossing the skin improve immune response, perhaps by providing micro-nutrients in-place for immune cell replication.

- Zinc acetate draws immune cells closer to the epidermis somehow, perhaps by being slightly irritant, therefore improving immune response on skin viral infection.

- Rubbing the skin increases blood flow through the dermis, allowing more immune cells to reach the skin resulting on increased infiltration upon detection of viral infection.

I want to recommend you SADBE 1%. He.. it....helped me a lot. Just put it on your body a few times a day. You will see the results and feel it after the first day. 

I bouth it here.  

https://www.enbipharma.com/sadbe-forte

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ill47

I've seen a bunch of positive studies in the effects of zinc on herpes, but I don't see any products that have resulted from this. Any reasons why? Why aren't more people talking about this?

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Guardianforyou

Are u able to apply it directly on the glans and under the foreskin? Even without lesions?

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friendlyboy
18 hours ago, Guardianforyou said:

Are u able to apply it directly on the glans and under the foreskin? Even without lesions?

Yes, that is how I use it, particularly without lesions.

 

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Phoenixx
On 9/20/2018 at 8:18 PM, friendlyboy said:

 I got the zinc acetate from an pharmacy in my town, they can't sell reagents but I know the pharmacist. I cost me about 10 € a 50 gr bottle, enough for a decade at the current rate of consumtion. Otherwise it is quite easy to get, you can buy it from a laboratory or even in ebay.

I apply the treatment on my glans about 2-3 times a week, I've never had any problem or adverse effect so far.

Did you manage to keep your penis skin lesion free until today with that treatment?

I suppose you never stopped the valacyclovir.

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friendlyboy
On 12/13/2018 at 2:34 AM, Phoenixx said:

Did you manage to keep your penis skin lesion free until today with that treatment?

I suppose you never stopped the valacyclovir.

I only had once the beginning of an OB on my penis and that was a year ago, I stopped it back then by doubling the valacyclovir dose.

That is correct, I've never stopped valacyclovir, though I've been lowering the dose during this year and now I'm down to 250 mg twice a day from 250 mg four times a day.

 

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LillianPanos
On 9/30/2018 at 5:09 PM, ill47 said:

And zinc oxide nanoparticles here: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/early/2016/04/27/jimmunol.1502373

Where can I get this stuff?

Germany I tried to order when it first came out this is an email I recived 1. If you want to discuss with dermatologist, Dr. med. Silke D. Krause is right contact (http://www.hautarzt-kiel-lubinus.de/).   

2. The creme (about which Prof. Adelung mentioned) can be purchased from Gorch Fock Apotheke Kiel  (http://www.gorch-fock-apotheke.de/)

3. The ZnO tetrapod powder can be ordered from our partner company at Kiel Univ named as FUMT Kiel (http://www.fumt-rd.de/home.html)

Hope the provided informations are helpful and please feel free to ask if some other infos are required. 
 

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Phoenixx

Lilian, the zinc acetate we are talking about here is different from the tetrapodal zinc oxide that you are mentioning. But thanks for the reminder. The ointment that contains the tetrapodal zinc oxide still isn't available at Gorch Fock Apotheke Kiel. I called them today: same status as last year and they have no further information on when and if it will be available again.

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The song remains the same

Thank you for this. I've been trying Zinc sulfate topically for the last month. It's been a long road. Nothing much has changed in the course of a month. The breakout is still terrible. I don't know if it's not helping or if it's helping immensely by exposing the virus to my immune system. I've had the virus for a very long time and this outbreak is the absolute worst I've ever had.

 The zinc sulfate application method to be taking a long time to do anything but I am sticking to it. I would add the zinc acetate. Help me out if you can.....(my thanks in advance)
I found a bag of Zinc acetate dihydrate in powder form on ebay. Is this the stuff you got? Would I mix it with a lotion or distilled water? 

Any help you can give would be immense.

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friendlyboy
19 hours ago, Phoenixx said:

Are you still continuing the Zinc Acetate treatment successfully?

Indeed, every time I take a shower I reapply it.

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The song remains the same

@friendlyboy, Thank you for posting and helping us. Also, where did you get your Zinc Acetate?  I found a bag of Zinc Acetate Dihydrate in powder form on ebay. Do you think that would be the same as what you got? And in your opinion should I mix it with a lotion or mix it with water and swab it on. Thank you.

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Phoenixx

I was also wondering if your zinc acetate is soluted in water or something else.

Also: Why did you decide to go for acetate and not lactate that was proven to be effective in vitro against HSV-2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC86580/) (acetate wasn't tested in this study though) or zinc sulfate that was helpful in the indian genital herpes zinc study? (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730471/)

@"The song remains the same": Don't mix it with a lotion. I tried the Kirman Labs cream (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zinc-Sulfate-Topical-Cream-Kirkman/dp/B00F94TUTE) that containts zink sulphate and water, but it was completely uneffective. So I want to give it a go with something in liquid-form.

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friendlyboy
On 12/19/2018 at 4:00 PM, The song remains the same said:

Thank you for this. I've been trying Zinc sulfate topically for the last month. It's been a long road. Nothing much has changed in the course of a month. The breakout is still terrible. I don't know if it's not helping or if it's helping immensely by exposing the virus to my immune system. I've had the virus for a very long time and this outbreak is the absolute worst I've ever had.

Hi,

I don't think it makes much of a difference whatever Zn salt you try. Zn doesn't affect the virus in the slightest, nor does it expose the virus to your immune system. Locally available Zn ions are, for your immune system, the equivalent of eating a piece of chicken before going to the gym to do some weightlifting, so to speak.

If you have been a carrier for years, and now you are suffering a very bad outbreak, you should consider whether there is something that may have weakened your immune system. You should also consider the possibility of your outbreak being something else entirely different, if lesions stay for more than a few days.

So, my advice if for you to check if: you are sleeping poorly, or you are very stressed, or you are vit. D deficient, or you have an urinary tract infection, or your lesions are caused by a bacterial skin infection or some allergic reaction. Definitely, check it with your doctor.

On 12/20/2018 at 3:24 PM, The song remains the same said:

Also, where did you get your Zinc Acetate?  I found a bag of Zinc Acetate Dihydrate in powder form on ebay. Do you think that would be the same as what you got?

I got it from a lab reagents store, but it should be the same stuff you've found on ebay. The only difference is I have guaranteed purity, but unless the stuff on ebay has toxic impurities it should matter.

On 12/20/2018 at 3:24 PM, The song remains the same said:

And in your opinion should I mix it with a lotion or mix it with water and swab it on.

Just distilled or deionized water. But you should be careful to dilute it properly, if the concentration is too high it will be irritant for your skin.

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friendlyboy
On 12/20/2018 at 7:58 PM, Phoenixx said:

Also: Why did you decide to go for acetate and not lactate that was proven to be effective in vitro against HSV-2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC86580/) (acetate wasn't tested in this study though) or zinc sulfate that was helpful in the indian genital herpes zinc study? (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730471/)

On one hand, those studies are completely useless. Zn doesn't have any effect against the virus in your body.

On the other hand, if Zn supports your immune system as a necessary micro-nutrient for your immune system, it doesn't matter much what Zn salt you apply, as long as it doesn't damage your skin. I chose Zn acetate for two reasons, first because acetic acid is a biological non toxic product already present in your body, second because it was easier to get.

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