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StayingUpbeat

The 75% reduction isn't actually all that ground breaking.  Simple gD based subunit vaccines have achieved better results and Betsy Harold's delta-gD2 vaccine at the Einstein Medical Center achieved 100% reduction in this same metric in the same animal model back in March of 2015.

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No virus (vaccine strain or wild-type challenge virus) was recovered from the dorsal root ganglia in either model suggesting that the vaccine prevented the establishment of latency.

It would appear that the primary focus of this research was to show that Phylogica's nanopartical delivery mechanism works.  The HSV proteins were simply the item used for proof of concept.  Unfortunately it is very unlikely there will be much of any continued research into the combo of the nanopartical + HSV protein as a vaccine product.  As mentioned above, the effects of that combination simply aren't that impressive.  Phylogica will undoubtedly keep working on the nanopartical aspect and commercially offer that to companies who develop vaccines.  Which again, was the point of this news release in the first place.

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Miss Horne
9 minutes ago, StayingUpbeat said:

The 75% reduction isn't actually all that ground breaking.  Simple gD based subunit vaccines have achieved better results and Betsy Harold's delta-gD2 vaccine at the Einstein Medical Center achieved 100% reduction in this same metric in the same animal model back in March of 2015.

It would appear that the primary focus of this research was to show that Phylogica's nanopartical delivery mechanism works.  The HSV proteins were simply the item used for proof of concept.  Unfortunately it is very unlikely there will be much of any continued research into the combo of the nanopartical + HSV protein as a vaccine product.  As mentioned above, the effects of that combination simply aren't that impressive.  Phylogica will undoubtedly keep working on the nanopartical aspect and commercially offer that to companies who develop vaccines.  Which again, was the point of this news release in the first place.

Thanks for the comments. Looks like the only think that might have a shot at helping us in the future is the drug Pritlevir then. 

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Cas9
2 hours ago, StayingUpbeat said:

The 75% reduction isn't actually all that ground breaking.  Simple gD based subunit vaccines have achieved better results and Betsy Harold's delta-gD2 vaccine at the Einstein Medical Center achieved 100% reduction in this same metric in the same animal model back in March of 2015.

Just to be clear, the Einstein College vaccine 100% stat is as a preventative; i.e. there were no signs of any virus, after mice were vaccinated and challenged. How the vaccine will work as a therapeutic has not been established.

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JHenry
5 hours ago, StayingUpbeat said:

The 75% reduction isn't actually all that ground breaking.  Simple gD based subunit vaccines have achieved better results and Betsy Harold's delta-gD2 vaccine at the Einstein Medical Center achieved 100% reduction in this same metric in the same animal model back in March of 2015.

It would appear that the primary focus of this research was to show that Phylogica's nanopartical delivery mechanism works.  The HSV proteins were simply the item used for proof of concept.  Unfortunately it is very unlikely there will be much of any continued research into the combo of the nanopartical + HSV protein as a vaccine product.  As mentioned above, the effects of that combination simply aren't that impressive.  Phylogica will undoubtedly keep working on the nanopartical aspect and commercially offer that to companies who develop vaccines.  Which again, was the point of this news release in the first place.

PLEASE help me understand the math here.  I understand 4 groups and 9+3=12 mice.   I understand 9 is 75% of 12.  

Set the table here for me.  “4 sets of experiments with 3 mice per group were conducted (12  mice in each “treatment” group and NINE mice in each “control group”.   

Thank you,

Henry 

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Voyager2

It would be nice to know what happened when none of the mice were vaccinated: 100% infected? 75% infected? It's good they are at least experimenting with this.

The Einstein and trivalent vaccines are so promising and the market is there. Thought a big company would be involved by now.  

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Stayjay2013
16 hours ago, JHenry said:

PLEASE help me understand the math here.  I understand 4 groups and 9+3=12 mice.   I understand 9 is 75% of 12. 

Yeah, the 75% they coated as mice with undetectable virus meant  9 out of 12 which means 3 of those mice treated with Phylogica's CPP vaccine showed some detectable virus in their nerve/tissue. 

However, they did not really specify why that happened as to whether those 3 mice were given a relatively low dose or not - which I personally believe so/the former.  

Also given their Vaccine's mechanism of action which is able to be delivered into the dendritic cells/ where the virus hides, I think if it is safe and they are able to replicate a similar results in humans, that might be it.

Edited by Stayjay2013

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LeftCoast

Holy shit people. We don’t know what the company is going to do until we talk to them. Yeah a HSV vaccine is expensive to develop but it would also be lucrative to be the first company to develop the vaccine. 

They release their report in the first quarter of 2019. We don’t have all the information. Someone else has emailed and I will try contacting them again. Chill. 

 

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MikeHerp
On 12/8/2018 at 11:45 PM, Miss Horne said:

I would like to know what does WilsoInAus, MikeHerp, Cas9 and StayingUpbeat think about this, please share your thought on this. Thank you. 

My thought is that, while it's nice that another company is trying to figure this out, this is very early stage and these are only limited animal trials.

It appears to be a prophylactic application, though some prophylactic vaccines might also have therapeutic effects.

The main issue with this would probably be, funding.  Remember the Red Biotec?  They were supposedly going into human trials early this year after incredible results in animals, but so far, nothing.  

Anyway, it seems to be pretty common with herpes that stuff that works well in mice, works less well in humans.  I'm not terrible excited at this stage.  But it's nice to know that companies are continuing to take swings.

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LeftCoast

No ring back yet folks. It seems like Phylogica is a tiny department of the research institute. I got shuffled around a lot until I got sent to a voice mail. Left a message. If people want to email them, be my guest. 

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Trace67
1 hour ago, LeftCoast said:

No ring back yet folks. It seems like Phylogica is a tiny department of the research institute. I got shuffled around a lot until I got sent to a voice mail. Left a message. If people want to email them, be my guest. 

I wouldnt pester the shit out of them. They dont have much more to tell you than what you already read and its not coming anytime soon if ever.

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Miss Horne
On 12/10/2018 at 4:13 PM, MikeHerp said:

My thought is that, while it's nice that another company is trying to figure this out, this is very early stage and these are only limited animal trials.

It appears to be a prophylactic application, though some prophylactic vaccines might also have therapeutic effects.

The main issue with this would probably be, funding.  Remember the Red Biotec?  They were supposedly going into human trials early this year after incredible results in animals, but so far, nothing.  

Anyway, it seems to be pretty common with herpes that stuff that works well in mice, works less well in humans.  I'm not terrible excited at this stage.  But it's nice to know that companies are continuing to take swings.

Thanks for commenting MikeHerp!

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LeftCoast

UPDATE:  I received an email back. I changed my name and secretary’s name out for anonymity purposes. 

Hello LC, 
 
I am sorry I missed your call - the time zone between Perth and Vancouver is tricky.
 
“secretary” said you were interested in whether our peptide vaccine work was prophylactic or therapeutic and our timeline for progression into the clinic. In response to the former, we have demonstrated prophylactic activity and have plans to move into a therapeutic model but have not yet done so. The theory is the same (stimulate the immune system to produce viral specific killer CD8+ T cells) so fingers crossed we see a similar outcome. We still have many elements to optimise before we get the vaccine perfect (multiple doses, use of an adjuvant, better CPPs, more antigens, targeting the dendritic cells etc.) so we have some ammunition left and, encouragingly, we have seen HSV lesions administered on the opposite side of the body to the vaccine regress (indicating the T-cells are active systemically and not just locally around the vaccination site).
 
The clinical trials question is a little more complicated - we are at least 24 months away from the clinic in this setting. It is also not the lead application of our platform so resourcing is a problem. What we plan to do is to evaluate the efficacy of the CPP in the same vaccination application but in a melanoma model (the theory is applicable across both cancer and viral indications because the body considers both cells to be 'foreign'). Those results will be available early next year and we are going to present the data at the Keystone cancer vaccines conference in Vancouver in January. From there it will be a matter of generating commercial interest to see the program partnered so that we can advance it alongside our internal focus on anti-sense oligonucleotide therapy.
 
 

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LeftCoast

Also, super nice of them to reply. Really appreciate anyone who is doing research but is also able to make the time to reach out to us folks ❤️

Edited by LeftCoast
More info

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Miss Horne

Thanks for this LeftCoast, hoping this can also be a therapeutic model and that it will help us all one day soon xx. 

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RNY18

 

Cause for some hope ?

I recently wrote to Rohan Hockings at Phylogica regarding his company’s HSV CPP vaccine. This was his reply :

Thank you for the words of encouragement. Drug development is a long and daunting journey. We have at least 24 months in front of us before we enter the clinic with a peptide vaccine.
 
Firstly, we need to show that the approach works as a therapeutic rather than a prophylactic treatment (ie. giving the vaccine after the viral exposure rather than before it). Secondly, we need to demonstrate that the peptide vaccine works for HSV-2 rather than the HSV-1 used in the animal models to date (the theory is the same across both of these outstanding questions but, as with all open questions in science, the proof is in the delivery). We will be addressing the first question in the first half of 2019. We have not yet made the strategic decision of pursuing HSV as a lead indication (we would need to address this question with expert assistance regarding our prospects of success given the many failures in the HSV-2 space e.g.: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/more-bad-news-for-vical-as-it-abandons-herpes-vaccine-program).
 
Encouragingly, we have a lot of tools in our armoury to improve on the results seen to date, including:
1) the use of targeting motifs to enhance the immune response to the virus;
2) the use of adjuvants in the treatment regimen to further enhance response;
3) the use of better Cell Penetrating Peptides (CPP) to specifically enhance the killer T-cell response targeted to the viral cells; and
4) combinations with existing drugs with a different mechanism of action to enhance the global anti-virus effect.
We will also be examining these approaches through 2019. The broader trend towards the use of peptide vaccines is gaining momentum. The theory of immune stimulation in the oncology (cancer) field also extends to anti-viral agents. Ultimovacs give a good overview of the mechanism in diagrammatic form on their website if you scroll through the images (this is how our vaccine works too):
 
 
Hopefully, with the right antigens and a very good CPP, we can make major inroads and move our candidate into the clinic over the coming couple of years to give ourselves the best chance of clinical success.

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Miss Horne
Posted (edited)

There is a saying in my country, you won’t catch the chicken by running after it, to catch the chicken you must approach slowly.

Yes admittedly it’s a shit saying but things take time and patience :)

Edited by Miss Horne

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Miss Horne

God I hope this helps us, I think we’ve all had a guts full of this virus now! 

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cowpoke02

hahah .. let me know when its out and if you die . haha. the i try it . mean time i think i am cured any way . 

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Miss Horne
19 hours ago, cowpoke02 said:

hahah .. let me know when its out and if you die . haha. the i try it . mean time i think i am cured any way . 

F’cks sake cowpoke02! You are just too funny :giggle:

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