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    • Just a human being
      An example: Censorship in Science  Science Freedoom Institute a bare bone bastion of an organisation founded by Peter Gøtzsche in the ashes of the deathknell of the Cochrane Colaberation an organisation of which he was a foundational member.  An article by an Australian journalist, Maryanne Demasi, speaking out against censorship in media reporting and science. A MASSIVE systematic issue with potential negligent crimes against humanity.  “Science is facing a crisis of democracy. Now more than ever, vitriolic attacks are being leveled at people who debate opposing scientific views. Asking questions that challenge the establishment may be unsettling, but silencing debate and proclaiming that the “science is settled” is not the solution.”  “Belgian physician Jan Vandenbroucke once wrote, ‘Without the possibility of open debate, science simply ceases to exist.’” https://www.scientificfreedom.dk/2019/10/30/science-and-censorship-my-story/    
    • Just a human being
      While I was wanting to take a break from my posting here for the next month as you asked a question I answered. Unfortunately while I can post and publish I cannot discuss the matter further here as I am being censored. That’s science for you. Endemic censorship and dishonesty. 
    • MikeHerp
      The HSV cure research is partly funded by the NIH. So it’s unlikely that FHC would stop it. If they stopped it, they couldn’t get the funding anymore. The cutbacks, while unfortunate, only affect 5% of their staff. Like any other private institution, they aren’t immune to the effects of a crashed economy. Let's continue to provide support and remain patient. Good news will cone but we have to be ready for the occasional setback or delay.  I will communicate with them about the status at the next opportunity,
    • WSX
      Leading by example — well done! Everyone else: Don't forget to check if your company matches charitable donations made out to Fred Hutch.
    • WilsoInAus
      Post flagged for moderation. Science is not censored, but fake material is censored and fraud is illegal. The article is a fake posted on an open source bulletin board - the bulletin board has no association with any university or research facility. There are no such people as Bernard Middleton or Susan Cosgrove, that is just part of the fraud. Nothing has ever been published concerning Synergy supplements. Why? Because they are just supplements that have never been shown to have any effect regarding herpes. There is no scientific reason why they would and no effect in any study has been found. Yes it is completely unreasonable to persist as you are and you have been warned for your behaviour by the moderator, I'm sure they will deal with appropriately.
MikeHerp

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MikeHerp
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Cas9 said:

Got it.  Yes, thank you. 

I really feel like Jerome has a chance to hit it out of the ballpark with two cuts.  

It's really exciting.  He does mention that with guinea pigs, they may need to reoptimize (maybe resort the AAVs), but I'm not too worried about that.  

Edited by MikeHerp

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Ohsotired
3 hours ago, MikeHerp said:

Thank you for your candid comments and questions.  I think it's totally ok to raise questions.  You're not bringing anyone down.  This is a cause that people need to decide for themselves whether or not they support and asking questions has to be a part of that.  This is particularly the case when raising funds is involved.

I will try to respond to you, based on my knowledge. I'm in year 4 of my HSV2 experience, so I'm not exactly a "veteran", but I have read a lot about it.

You are correct that Dr. Jerome has been working on this since 2014, and actually even earlier.  2011 if I recall correctly.  So it's been quite some time.  However, I read this in two ways.  Dr. Jerome has been very methodical in what he is doing.  I've watched videos that he has published from years past and it's just amazing how consistent he has been and driven.  Each video seems to connect with the last one, and questions asked in previous videos, are generally solved or addressed in the subsequent ones.  He's covering all the bases and solving each obstacle so methodically.  He is also trying to anticipate every possible issue.

For example, I would really encourage you to read this 2016 study in which Jerome is a co-author in which he examines willingness of people to participate in HSV cure trials.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4985010/

This study is done in anticipation that gene editing could have certain risks that might even be higher than normal.  So a question could be raised whether it's justified to implement a risky intervention.  He addresses that issue too.

Further, watching his videos, I'm struck by how clear and well thought out their research is and how methodically they have been moving forward.  

On one hand, it means it's kind of slow.  But on the other hand, stepping back and looking at what they are doing from a big picture perspective, you start to feel that it's very compelling.  It's going to take time, but they are covering every base, leaving no stone unturned. When and if they do submit an IND application for a new experimental therapy to be tested in the clinic, you know that they will have compiled an enormous safety and efficacy record in animals and answered all kinds of related questions about this research.  That's part of the reason why this has to go a little bit slower.  This is a new technology after all, and there are many questions.  Jerome's team is really addressing them one by one, so far successfully. 

Why this time it is different?  I think the answer is simply, nobody has ever previously come up with any therapy that has been proven to attack HSV in its latent state.  That's what is different about this.  People talked about curing HSV in the past, but there was nothing other than stuff on drawing boards.  None of the research ever went anywhere.  Certainly, no reputable research I know was able to partially cure any living animal from HSV like Jerome's team has apparently done.  

Gene editing is a relatively new technology. The concept has been around, but rarely applied.  It had some setbacks in the past which put the field back for a while, but it seems ppl have largely learned from their mistakes.  It holds enormous potential.  The ability to target elements inside a human cell--while leaving that cell and surrounding cells, intact.  Which is an unparalleled precision (compare it to radio therapy or chemo therapy where they carpet bomb large layers of tissues with the hope that they kill the cancer along with tons of other things. ) This is something very special. 

I think excitement will really start to build for this stuff, and for gene editing in general.  There have been tantalizing hints already here and there.  Of people possibly cured from incurable or extremely hard to treat diseases using gene editing.  I would be paying attention to the broader field of gene editing as there are now companies and researchers that are paving the way, and the going is so far so good.  Anticipation will really start to snow ball with this stuff.  

https://www.trialsitenews.com/a-small-study-raises-big-hopes-that-gene-editing-can-treat-blood-diseases/

With more stuff like this, I honestly believe that your skepticism--healthy skepticism--will start to melt away in the coming years and that gene editing in general, will increasingly generate massive and snow balling excitement.  

But let's think about this--where do some of these gene editors come from?  These mechanisms are in fact derived from bacteria which have used it to fight off viruses.  Mankind is harnessing this antiviral defense mechanism for other purposes.  But the original purpose was to cut up virus DNA.  That's why DNA viruses like HIV, HSV, hepatitis, will be natural and EARLY targets for this technology.  Not saying that those exact ones will be the first to get cures--those will probably be instead blood disorders since blood can be safely;y edited ex-vivo before being reinjected. But DNA viruses will be one of the earliest to be targeted.  That's what the purpose of gene editing originally was, so those targets will come naturally and obviously.

Among them, HSV appears to be an attractive "low hanging fruit".  I quote directly from their last peer reviewed paper:

This is just my take.  I don't know if I have persuaded you, but I'm glad you have raised the questions you did.

Thanks for the reply. I, too, am hopeful that Dr. Jerome is successful. I’m very glad that he is meticulous and methodical. I hope his attention to detail doesn’t mean or translate to 15 more years of research and waiting. 

To clarify, are you saying that the editing process would basically use microorganisms to remove vital loads from our DNA? 

This may seem dumb, but I have to ask. Does. Dr. Jerome address if the editing could not only ease outbreaks, but symptoms of neuralgia that coincide with the virus/outbreak?

Lastly, hopefully the FDA sees that the benefits of this therapy outweighs the risks. 

I guess being cured at 50+ is better than ever. 

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Cas9
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ohsotired said:

 

To clarify, are you saying that the editing process would basically use microorganisms to remove vital loads from our DNA? 

This may seem dumb, but I have to ask. Does. Dr. Jerome address if the editing could not only ease outbreaks, but symptoms of neuralgia that coincide with the virus/outbreak?

 

No, he's not using microorganisms. What Mike was addressing was the gene editing tool called CRISPR Cas.
That editing tool exists in nature and comes from bacteria. Essentially, bacteria have an immune system to protect themselves from invading viruses or other bacteria. Science is now using that tool for gene editing in general. It will allow us to go into a cell and edit the DNA in ways that will eliminate genetic diseases.

Gene editing tools have been around since the 1970s; e.g. Talens and Zinc Fingers.  Those are man made, difficult to make, and for each specific cut on the DNA, a new editor needs to be created. They are simply not that practical. When CRISPR Cas was discovered about 5 years ago, it was quite a breakthrough. It's very practical, cheap, and easy to modify for your application. It will have some wonderful applications for genetic diseases going forward.

Without getting too deep or overly detailed, essentially, when a bacteria is invaded by a virus for example, the bacteria expresses both a guide RNA and a cutting enzyme (i.e. one of the Cas enzymes). Those two pieces team up and scan the invading viral DNA. When there's a match of nucleotides between the strip of RNA and a segment of the viral DNA. they lock onto that segment of viral DNA and the Cas enzyme makes a double stranded cut. This process continues along the entire viral DNA strand , resulting in the viral DNA being chopped up to the point that the virus is destroyed. That's how bacteria fight off viral infections and save their lives.

But Dr. Jerome is not using this Cas enzyme in his particular work and for the reason I explained in my earlier comment; i.e.

To deliver the genes of the enzyme, he needs to store it in an AAV that will then enter the neuron, and then automatically convert the genes into the actual enzyme.  Now, ssAAV does have enough room to store the genes for a Cas enzyme, but it requires the neuron to express the gene into the actual enzyme. That process is slow and unpredictable. That's where scAAV comes into the picture.  scAAV has the ability to express the genes stored in it, without any assistance of the neuron, which as I stated, is slow and unpredictable. So scAAV sounds like the the better choice for delivering the enzyme's genes BUT scAAV doesn't have the storage capacity that ssAAV does.

So the fix for this dilemma is to create an enzyme that's small enough to fit into the scAAV. It will have to be a man made one because there's no evidence of any bacteria with a Cas enzyme being small enough. A man made one, as I stated earlier, is not easy to create and not a practical approach to gene editing applications in general.  But from Dr. jerome's perspective, if we create this one gene editor (i.e. we do this extra work upfront) and it works for curing HSV, it's well worth the time and effort.  And as we can see, it works wonderfully; at least in mice. Now on to the guinea pigs...

---------------------------------

Dr. Jerome's work, if it continues to be successful as he moves forward in testing guinea pigs, then primates, and finally humans, will eliminate OBs. The shedding will either be gone completely, or to the point that you will have no symptoms (including neuralgia) and not be contagious. It all depends on how much of the latent virus is removed. It's quite possible that eliminating 90% will be good enough for a practical cure. If he  eliminates all of it, it's a sterilizing cure.

Keep in mind, like any research, this will be a lengthy process. Animal studies will likely take at least a few years, and then the human trials would take several years. So if you're 50ish, you may be able to enjoy your 60s and beyond, herpes free.

 

Edited by Cas9

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dont quit!17
9 hours ago, MikeHerp said:

Can you possibly pin point me to the part of the video that discusses this aspect?  I want to focus on this part again but I'm trying to recall exactly where he talks about it.  

Anyway, I love how you break his videos down. you have a really good grasp of what he is talking about.  

He does, I reviewed Jeromes content after he broke down his work and I was re-enthused by it. I'm getting ready to donate again and I'm praying for the best with the guinea pig trials. 

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dont quit!17
5 hours ago, Ohsotired said:

Thanks for the reply. I, too, am hopeful that Dr. Jerome is successful. I’m very glad that he is meticulous and methodical. I hope his attention to detail doesn’t mean or translate to 15 more years of research and waiting. 

To clarify, are you saying that the editing process would basically use microorganisms to remove vital loads from our DNA? 

This may seem dumb, but I have to ask. Does. Dr. Jerome address if the editing could not only ease outbreaks, but symptoms of neuralgia that coincide with the virus/outbreak?

Lastly, hopefully the FDA sees that the benefits of this therapy outweighs the risks. 

I guess being cured at 50+ is better than ever. 

50 is the new 30, lol. Im in the same boat and I think this is the most promising research that is ongoing. I'm not big on vaccines but this research if played right by Jerome has great potential. Jerome is charismatic and has leadership qualities to bring this home on two fronts: science and research as well as jumping through the needed FDA hoops to get us to the finish line. Being cured at 50 will bring you a better quality of life and less suffering as you get older. We have members here on the forum, who just want to be cured and they are over than 50.

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MikeHerp
46 minutes ago, dont quit!17 said:

. Jerome is charismatic and has leadership qualities to bring this home on two fronts: science and research as well as jumping through the needed FDA hoops 

I agree. I wouldn’t underestimate the impact those qualities can have. He’s an easy guy to get behind. Persuasive. Compelling. Logical. 

I do think Jerome has a solid chance to hit it out of the balk park in guinea pigs. Maybe-not in the first try, as we don’t know whether the optimal AAVs for mice will also be optimal for piggies, but after some juggling I think we may have a pleasant surprise. I’m not going to try to guess the exact result but I’m optimistic.

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MikeHerp
5 hours ago, Cas9 said:

No, he's not using microorganisms. What Mike was addressing was the gene editing tool called CRISPR Cas.
That editing tool exists in nature and comes from bacteria. Essentially, bacteria have an immune system to protect themselves from invading viruses or other bacteria. Science is now using that tool for gene editing in general. It will allow us to go into a cell and edit the DNA in ways that will eliminate genetic diseases.

Gene editing tools have been around since the 1970s; e.g. Talens and Zinc Fingers.  Those are man made, difficult to make, and for each specific cut on the DNA, a new editor needs to be created. They are simply not that practical. When CRISPR Cas was discovered about 5 years ago, it was quite a breakthrough. It's very practical, cheap, and easy to modify for your application. It will have some wonderful applications for genetic diseases going forward.................................

 

 

This is wonderful breakdown. Required reading. 

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Cas9
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dont quit!17 said:

He does, I reviewed Jeromes content after he broke down his work and I was re-enthused by it. I'm getting ready to donate again and I'm praying for the best with the guinea pig trials. 

And now you have enthused me, so I'll also donate;  It's contagious! :)

Edited by Cas9

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themotion

Any idea how this treatment would be administered to humans? I know it's still far away but I can't help but think about it.

I personally have no background in science short of high school biology but how would this work? Then, what would take place on a cellular level? Would the "modified cells" target the virus in it's little hiding spot? If there's any general youtube vids related to this to help me better understand I'd really appreciate it.

PS. I wish more of this site would read the recent content on this thread. It's extremely positive and hopeful. I think we're all exponentially lucky to be alive while this is in development. There's hope for every single one of us and more importantly the generations after us. Stay well and safe eveyrone.

 

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Just a human being
3 hours ago, themotion said:

Any idea how this treatment would be administered to humans? I know it's still far away but I can't help but think about it.

I personally have no background in science short of high school biology but how would this work? Then, what would take place on a cellular level? Would the "modified cells" target the virus in it's little hiding spot? If there's any general youtube vids related to this to help me better understand I'd really appreciate it.

PS. I wish more of this site would read the recent content on this thread. It's extremely positive and hopeful. I think we're all exponentially lucky to be alive while this is in development. There's hope for every single one of us and more importantly the generations after us. Stay well and safe eveyrone.

 

Aren t people taking it experimentally via injection?

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MikeHerp
4 hours ago, themotion said:

Any idea how this treatment would be administered to humans? I know it's still far away but I can't help but think about it.

I personally have no background in science short of high school biology but how would this work? Then, what would take place on a cellular level? Would the "modified cells" target the virus in it's little hiding spot? If there's any general youtube vids related to this to help me better understand I'd really appreciate it.

PS. I wish more of this site would read the recent content on this thread. It's extremely positive and hopeful. I think we're all exponentially lucky to be alive while this is in development. There's hope for every single one of us and more importantly the generations after us. Stay well and safe eveyrone.

 

Here is the latest from November.

 

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themotion
On 5/26/2020 at 3:12 AM, MikeHerp said:

Here is the latest from November.

 

He mentioned the 208 people....That's all of us....... LETS GO GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Cas9
2 hours ago, themotion said:

He mentioned the 208 people....That's all of us....... LETS GO GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was 6 months ago. The number is higher now

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MikeHerp
5 hours ago, Miss Horne said:

@MikeHerp do we know why the Fred Hutch link has changed??

I believe it’s just a web glitch. I’ve seen this happened once before and the site was promptly restored. 

I contacted the philanthropy team, but because it’s the weekend, it might take until Monday. 

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MikeHerp
18 hours ago, Cas9 said:

That was 6 months ago. The number is higher now

We are well over 400 unique donors now.!

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Miss Horne

@MikeHerp and it was just a few of us in the beginning! Look where we are now, all thanks to you. Love, love, love you my friend ❤️

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AlyssaN

I clicked the link, but what do I type in for donating to this specific fundraiser? I tried Dr. Jerome, and I tried " "Herpes Cure Fundraiser" - no results.  Isn't there a direct link for this group's efforts, and not just to the main page? 

I was gonna wait to set up donating until after I win the Mega Millions tonight (haha) but I wanted to go ahead and get it going.

Thanks for any help!

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Focused

Why is the link to our fundraiser down? It’s not working.

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Miss Horne
Posted (edited)

We think it’s a glitch, it has happened before. It has been reported to FHC but they might not resolve the issue until Monday. Last time it happened it was rectified straight away 😀

Edited by Miss Horne

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AlyssaN

I'll try again Monday - thanks!

 

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MikeHerp

Message from FHC philanthropy:

 

There is a small glitch with the website that we are working on. The page is still live, located here: http://engage.fredhutch.org/site/TR/PersonalFundraisingPages/General?px=1802786&pg=personal&fr_id=1574

I will need to request a new link to "fredhutch.org/hsv" for you on Monday, which is not working right now, but you can access the site from the link above in the meantime. I will let you know when that is fixed”

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themotion
On 5/30/2020 at 6:41 PM, MikeHerp said:

Message from FHC philanthropy:

 

There is a small glitch with the website that we are working on. The page is still live, located here: http://engage.fredhutch.org/site/TR/PersonalFundraisingPages/General?px=1802786&pg=personal&fr_id=1574

I will need to request a new link to "fredhutch.org/hsv" for you on Monday, which is not working right now, but you can access the site from the link above in the meantime. I will let you know when that is fixed”

You are a Gift from god to this group.

 

Thank you for the update. Clearly all of you think about this daily as I do. Happy it's back up. :)

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themotion

When I see the amount at an increment other than a multiple of 100, I always bump it up.

 

: )

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