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MikeHerp

GREAT NEWS! Dr. Jerome at Fred Hutch has achieved 50% to 90% elimination of latent HSV in mice

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vzhe

This looks like great progress. I hope this makes it into Excision's trials!

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MikeHerp
14 minutes ago, vzhe said:

This looks like great progress. I hope this makes it into Excision's trials!

Jerome is using meganucleases. 

Excision is using CRISPR.  So far, CRISPR has not been shown to be able to edit latent virus.  Hopefully they will find a work around.  

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vzhe
4 minutes ago, MikeHerp said:

Jerome is using meganucleases. 

Excision is using CRISPR.  So far, CRISPR has not been shown to be able to edit latent virus.  Hopefully they will find a work around.  

Yeah, but he said he's providing consulting to Excision at the beginning.

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hopeful22

Amazing news. Thank you so much for sharing. 

God bless

Hopeful 

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ManagingIllness

To be fair, it's 90% reduction in superior cervical ganglion (SCG) neurons and > 50% in terminal ganglion (TG) neurons. And although there is debate, he mentions the scientific consensus is that the TG are more important for the disease. These are non-trivial numbers, and it's astounding progress, but this isn't "90% of all cells within infected mice have been cured of HSV!"

This means more like 70% cell-cure-rate on average (assuming the amount of each cell at the relevant areas are equal, which they likely aren't).
I'm not complaining, and I would definitely pay money for such a treatment!

Part of video that explains this: 38:20

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floydmonk

When I heard the part about moving on from a single cut in the DNA, to a double cut, based on HIV research findings I immediately thought about the animated graphics on excision's website. This is making very considerable progress.

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MikeHerp
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, ManagingIllness said:

To be fair, it's 90% reduction in superior cervical ganglion (SCG) neurons and > 50% in terminal ganglion (TG) neurons. And although there is debate, he mentions the scientific consensus is that the TG are more important for the disease. These are non-trivial numbers, and it's astounding progress, but this isn't "90% of all cells within infected mice have been cured of HSV!"

This means more like 70% cell-cure-rate on average (assuming the amount of each cell at the relevant areas are equal, which they likely aren't).
I'm not complaining, and I would definitely pay money for such a treatment!

Part of video that explains this: 38:20

I think you might be right.  I had initially understood that some mice were infected in TG and some in SCG.  But it seems they the mice were coinfected in both places by HSV1 (that's different than what happens in humans, as HSV1 will only usually be in one ganglia or the other, if person has HSV in both ganglia, it's usually HSV1 in TG and HSV2 in SCG). I edited my original post to reflect your observation.

So you may be right that it wasn't 90% of ALL latent HSV, but rather somewhere between 90% and 50%+--as you mentioned in would depend on how many HSV are in each ganglia.

Still, considering that they are eliminating HSV and not just editing, these are fantastic results in my view.

It seems they have a good idea why the % was lower in TG.  At the end, I think he suggests a path forward for exploring that, making sure that their AAV is one that is able to penetrate all ganglia.  Delivery seems key, and they've come really far very quickly. 

I have confidence in Jerome and his team.

 

Edited by MikeHerp

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jmherped

So does anybody know when such a meganuclease treatment could potentially be available?  Are we looking at 5 years or more or is this something that could help me get my life back sooner?  So sick of being sick...

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Tired of waiting

While this is good news, I believe this has been reported on prior in the the Mens Health  story of Feb 12th? This is good background information but not anything newer that was posted earlier on this forum.  

Based on Jerome's comments on refining the process  and due to standard protocols of testing on mice,guinea pigs, primates... humans. I would say we are more that 5 years out.  That is unless we can just go to Human testing. I'm in for that as I have nothing to loose at this point.  Since this is basic research and fact finding, there is no roadmap or commercial partner to give timelines to any of this. 

 

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Voyager2

Superior cervical ganglion (SCG)? What happened to dorsal root ganglia (DRG)?

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MikeHerp
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Tired of waiting said:

 Since this is basic research and fact finding, there is no roadmap or commercial partner to give timelines to any of this. 

 

Finally, also want to comment on this.  It's simple.  If he builds it, they will come.  And he's building it, and fast.

What really gives me a ton of hope listening to that presentation, is how systematic and methodical they have been overcoming every challenge, and how quickly.  

With already 50-90% cure rates in latent HSV in mice, I have little doubt that this will attract commercial attention at the right time.  If this continues on the path to success--and that's a pathj that is clearly mapped out already, commercial partners will be lining up for sure.  It has already attracted increasingly significant NIH funding.  

Further, if you still have any doubts, I'd google Fred Hutch Center and read the section on commercialization on their Wikipedia entry. This is a renowned research institute, with a well proven track record of commercializing their lab grown ideas.  Juno Therapeutics, a multi billion dollar pharma behemoth was spun out of their labs, among others.  

 

Edited by MikeHerp

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Tired of waiting
Posted (edited)

Sorry if my post was viewed as negative, it was not my intent to throw a wet blanket on very noteworthy accomplishment.  I just want to help set expectations that we will not see a cure available in the next year or two. I'm aware of FH and of Keith's effort and accomplishments. In fact I'm over Thousand dollars invested (and going) with the  HSV fundraiser at FH, to help in some way to get this over the finish line.

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Best to you.

Edited by Tired of waiting

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ManagingIllness

Gene editing in humans is a very big step that civilization is taking, but we are taking it slowly, and we will take it slowly. Unlike vaccines, this is new and relatively untested technology. So vaccines (like the recent HPV vaccine) take about 12 years to develop, from initial formulation to FDA approval. Will this gene editing technology move at the same pace or quicker? I'm not sure. But if it does, we're probably at the 4-6 year mark out of 12. I doubt we'll be getting injected into us anytime soon >_<

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MikeHerp
3 hours ago, Tired of waiting said:

Sorry if my post was viewed as negative, it was not my intent to throw a wet blanket on very noteworthy accomplishment.  I just want to help set expectations that we will not see a cure available in the next year or two. I'm aware of FH and of Keith's effort and accomplishments. In fact I'm over Thousand dollars invested (and going) with the  HSV fundraiser at FH, to help in some way to get this over the finish line.

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Best to you.

It's totally ok.  Don't worry you weren't a wet blanket.  Everyone is a bit frustrated that we don't have better treatments or a cure.   you raise valid points.  I'm just trying to look on the bright side and I think there definitely is one here.  

You've been a big part of this,  You're invested.  I'm in $1100 now, and i'll contribute again at each $10k reached.

Thank you so much.  We are all in this together.  We can make a difference.  Let's try to hold on and see this through.  

 

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tayelle

Honestly don't care if it takes around 6 years....if that meant for a functional cure (no symptoms or transmission). I'd rather it be safe and work then to do another rogue trial that benefited/ granted access to only .00001% of the hsv population. We just have to continue to donate to them and let them know we have their support and we are following them. I can't wait for the day for the cure and for all the people who have been rejected get the last laugh.  In the meantime,  wear condoms double up on valtrex and amenarelief for protection.  

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Cas12
On 4/2/2019 at 5:45 PM, vzhe said:

Yeah, but he said he's providing consulting to Excision at the beginning.

Editas, not Excision

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Tintin

Sinceramente analizando todo amigo siendo concientes viendo todo para cuando creen que este ya listo este tratamiento vacuna como se llame gracias por favor alguien que me conteste 

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Tintin

Y del 1 al 10 que numero de esperanzas tienen al respecto por favor les agradeceria sus repuestas gracias 

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MikeHerp
13 minutes ago, Tintin said:

Y del 1 al 10 que numero de esperanzas tienen al respecto por favor les agradeceria sus repuestas gracias 

I'm sorry I don't speak your language, so I had to use google translate.

To answer your question, on the scale of 1 to 10 how hopeful I would be on this.  I'm not a medical researchers or scientist, but in terms of whether this tech will get us to the end of a cure or functional cure, I'd say I'm 8 or 9 out of 10 hopeful.

In terms of timing, I'm not sure.  It appears they are getting closer to human trials.  To quote a poster above, "we're probably at the 4-6 year mark out of 12."  I think that sounds like a fair assessment.  That said, once this gets into the clinic, I have a feeling things will be a bit more optimistic.

There are reasons to be cautious, because this is a new, fairly untested technology.  On the other hand, I don't think this will require many many years to test, like that prophylactic HSV vaccine which needed people to have sex over many years.  I have a feeling we would at least know fairly quickly whether it is working--probably as soon as a phase 1/2.  It won't be like that Glaxo vaccine where they didn't find out until late phase 3 that it doesn't seem to be working.  But a question is how long it would take to test safety.  FDA has produced a helpful statement that, for gene editing products, they may focus more on post treatment studies to test that. But we will have to see.

The thing about this is, much of this is in delivery.  This stuff definitely disrupts latent HSV in human cells in the petrie dish.  If this can be effectively delivered to human neuron ganglia, it should hopefully work.

Those are just my opinions.  Like I said, I'm not a virologist.  

 

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information seeker
14 hours ago, MikeHerp said:

I'm sorry I don't speak your language, so I had to use google translate.

To answer your question, on the scale of 1 to 10 how hopeful I would be on this.  I'm not a medical researchers or scientist, but in terms of whether this tech will get us to the end of a cure or functional cure, I'd say I'm 8 or 9 out of 10 hopeful.

In terms of timing, I'm not sure.  It appears they are getting closer to human trials.  To quote a poster above, "we're probably at the 4-6 year mark out of 12."  I think that sounds like a fair assessment.  That said, once this gets into the clinic, I have a feeling things will be a bit more optimistic.

There are reasons to be cautious, because this is a new, fairly untested technology.  On the other hand, I don't think this will require many many years to test, like that prophylactic HSV vaccine which needed people to have sex over many years.  I have a feeling we would at least know fairly quickly whether it is working--probably as soon as a phase 1/2.  It won't be like that Glaxo vaccine where they didn't find out until late phase 3 that it doesn't seem to be working.  But a question is how long it would take to test safety.  FDA has produced a helpful statement that, for gene editing products, they may focus more on post treatment studies to test that. But we will have to see.

The thing about this is, much of this is in delivery.  This stuff definitely disrupts latent HSV in human cells in the petrie dish.  If this can be effectively delivered to human neuron ganglia, it should hopefully work.

Those are just my opinions.  Like I said, I'm not a virologist.  

 

On 3/9/2019 at 8:20 AM, Tired of waiting said:

good question, here is the link to ask them that.

https://phylogica.com/contact-us/

 

 

On 3/9/2019 at 12:53 AM, ZealousidealAide7 said:

 

I believe delivery is almost done, it more about increase effectiveness of treatment.  I would also say, we 3 years of a public cure. If it currently the virus can be fragmented in cell, then we could cure with multiple treatment now, but it would be very costly, and not worth curring people at this stage. If you have to pay thousands in treatment to get rid of it, it would only be worth giving it to people of high value.

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Tintin
18 hours ago, MikeHerp said:

Lo siento, no hablo tu idioma, así que tuve que usar el traductor de Google.

Para responder a su pregunta, en la escala del 1 al 10, qué esperanzada sería con esto. No soy un investigador médico o científico, pero en términos de si esta tecnología nos llevará al final de una cura o una cura funcional , diría que tengo 8 o 9 de cada 10 aspirantes.

En términos de tiempo, no estoy seguro. Parece que se están acercando a las pruebas humanas. Para citar un póster de arriba, " probablemente estemos en el 4-6 año de los 12". Creo que eso suena como una evaluación justa. Dicho esto, una vez que esto llegue a la clínica, tengo la sensación de que las cosas serán un poco más optimistas.

Hay razones para ser cauteloso, porque esta es una tecnología nueva, bastante no probada. Por otro lado, no creo que esto requiera muchos años de prueba, como la vacuna profiláctica contra el VHS que necesitaba que las personas tuvieran relaciones sexuales durante muchos años . Tengo la sensación de que al menos sabríamos bastante rápido si está funcionando, probablemente tan pronto como en la fase 1/2. No será como la vacuna Glaxo en la que no descubrieron hasta la última fase 3 que no parece estar funcionando. Pero una pregunta es cuánto tiempo tomaría probar la seguridad. La FDA ha producido una declaración útil de que, para los productos de edición de genes, pueden centrarse más en los estudios posteriores al tratamiento para probar eso. Pero tendremos que ver.

Lo que pasa con esto es que gran parte de esto está en la entrega. Esto definitivamente altera el HSV latente en células humanas en la placa de Petrie. Si esto puede ser efectivamente administrado a los ganglios de las neuronas humanas, es de esperar que funcione.

Esas son solo mis opiniones. Como dije, no soy un virólogo.  

 

Gracias por responder osea que mas o menos 4 años se puede decir que es lo mas prometedor que hay hasta ahora? y me podria decir en que se basa el tratamiento o la cura es una vacuna , un suplemento en que se basa este tratamiento perdone mi ignorancia en esto y tu personal como lo ves y los demas de este foro los mas especializados que dicen muchas gracias mi amigo Dios te bendiga

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Tintin
4 hours ago, information seeker said:

 

Creo que el parto está casi terminado, se trata más de aumentar la efectividad del tratamiento. También diría, nosotros 3 años de una cura pública. Si actualmente el virus se puede fragmentar en la célula, entonces podríamos curarnos con un tratamiento múltiple ahora, pero sería muy costoso, y no valdría la pena contar con personas en esta etapa. Si tiene que pagar miles de dólares en el tratamiento para deshacerse de él, solo valdría la pena dárselo a personas de alto valor.

Hola como estas esta seguro que podria en 3 años salir la cura para esto del hsv 2 que espectativas tienes y como lo ves tu personalmente y los demas que conoces aca en este foro por que no hay tantos comentarios o debate sobre esto o es algo de lo mismo que se queda en promesa que lo hace distinto ala demas propuestas de cura si alguien que pudiera tambien responder esto y sepa del tema por favor les  agradeceria

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MikeHerp
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tintin said:

Gracias por responder osea que mas o menos 4 años se puede decir que es lo mas prometedor que hay hasta ahora? y me podria decir en que se basa el tratamiento o la cura es una vacuna , un suplemento en que se basa este tratamiento perdone mi ignorancia en esto y tu personal como lo ves y los demas de este foro los mas especializados que dicen muchas gracias mi amigo Dios te bendiga

It's not a vaccine.  It's a gene editing treatment that is very new.  Gene editing is being studied very intensely, and a lot of attention and money is coming into the field.  It's still in its infancy, but many experts are predicting that it will be widely available in the coming years.  

Edited by MikeHerp

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