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farnsworth

How likely is it China will cure HSV before the States do?

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BioHacker
Posted (edited)

If China does anything, it will probably be because there is a profit opportunity - like a vaccine or gene editing technique developed in the US, that can be copied and refined in China. Then you COULD theoretically see some company in China get local approval for whatever the treatment was, and then offer it to anyone with money. Although some of the same hurdles exist as in the US in terms of access to funding, and size of profitable market opportunity, the local approval process might be easier - and certainly the testing and development work would be cheaper and less restricted.

Edited by BioHacker

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MikeHerp
On 5/12/2019 at 5:56 AM, Cas9 said:

No sir, the number of people with "regular" symptoms is not very rare as you say. More than half the world gets cold sores and of all the people with ghsv2, for example, one of six have symptoms. Whether it's an OB once a year or once every month. Saying it's very rare is an erroneous statement. We can argue the percentages and how many OBs etc.., but it's not very rare.

Anyway, what's your point of saying it's not so bad? That's rather simplistic. It all depends on the person and their experience. The best you or anyone can do is provide accurate information, show how to put things in the proper perspective, and encourage the person as best you can. I once spent 3 months personal messaging some one on this site because they were very suicidal.

So were you officially diagnosed with hsv? And if so, what type?

Just to add, in one study of "asymptomatic" GHSV people, most of the asymptomatic people were able to find symptoms once they were taught what to look for.  

So the number of truly asymptomatic people, is probably not very large.  

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BioHacker
18 hours ago, MikeHerp said:

Just to add, in one study of "asymptomatic" GHSV people, most of the asymptomatic people were able to find symptoms once they were taught what to look for.  

So the number of truly asymptomatic people, is probably not very large.  

Symptoms range from some people being truly asymptomatic, to some people who have symptoms bad enough that it is periodically painful, visible, and obvious. The extremes (truly asymptomatic / frequent painful outbreaks) are probably only 1-2% of the patient population, but the rest of people fall all along the spectrum in between (probably in a normal distribution). One mistake people make, is in assuming that people on this website are a population "representative" of the typical experience. In reality, this website is populated by people who are highly unusual - they are aware of their status for some reason (a tiny self-selected minority) - either as a result of severe symptoms, or as a result of being tested for some reason (testing is not standard procedure) - or who are here as a result of paranoia, or in a quest to self-diagnose some set of ambiguous symptoms. The vast majority of people at large (98% of the population) have no idea whether they have HSV or not, because they have not been tested, have no intention of being tested, and either don't have symptoms, don't notice the symptoms, or the symptoms are present but mild enough that they incorrectly attribute the symptoms to some typical benign cause (the situation most likely to spread the virus).

Interestingly, most studies showing that people "notice symptoms" after diagnosis are based on patient self-reports - not swab, or biopsy, or lab confirmation of actual symptoms. There is a huge potential "placebo effect," just the same as if you told a group of people that they tested "conclusively positive for chronic fatigue syndrome" - and then recorded how many of those people felt any symptoms of "being noticeably tired or lacking alertness" in the months following the diagnosis. Probably 80% of more people would "notice symptoms" of "chronic fatigue syndrome" if you did that (even if none of them had it). Why? Because the symptoms, regardless of cause,  are so commonplace and the power of suggestion is significant. Same thing with HSV. Mild HSV symptoms, like a tingle, or an itch, or some dry skin, or a red spot - those are so commonplace that they would go unnoticed by most people as anything unusual, or be viewed as symptoms (correctly or incorrectly) if someone was diagnosed and thinking about it. Even a dermatologist can't diagnose dry skin, or a red spot, or an itch, just by looking at it - usually it requires a biopsy. How many people get a biopsy for a random red spot of uncertain origin? And, of course, it would be unethical to have a control group (like if a group of people who researchers falsely "diagnosed" with HSV, were studied to see how many HSV-negative people would notice "symptoms" after a false diagnosis - that would not get past an ethics review).

When studies say x% of people noticed symptoms, you have to assume that the % of people who noticed any red spots, dry skin, itching, or anything else under the sun, regardless of the cause. Some people can distinguish between mild symptoms of different things after years of personal experience, or after learning to identify the causes of all sorts of different skin conditions (likely as a result of asking a dermatologist to biopsy anything remotely suspicious, to determine what is what, or by associating obvious symptoms with less obvious precursor symptoms) - but in the aftermath of a diagnosis, most people would simply think everything is a symptom. HSV can even trigger recurrent autoimmune conditions similar to eczema - but which are not symptoms of HSV, even though the trigger for the condition is HSV. In reality, there is no foolproof way to determine what is and what is not a random "mild" symptom, aside from a biopsy (or past biopsy of a similar symptom).

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MikeHerp
1 hour ago, BioHacker said:

The extremes (truly asymptomatic / frequent painful outbreaks) are probably only 1-2% of the patient population, but the rest of people fall all along the spectrum in between (probably in a normal distribution). 

Right.  Most people who have HSV probably have some symptoms.  Truly asymptomatic people, who have literally zero symptoms, are probably rare.

This is easy to understand because, nobody is able to fully suppress the virus.  It's been shown time and time again, that even so called asymptomatic people shed the virus and are infectious.  And studies using even ultra high doses of valtrex, still showed continuous shedding events.  Pretty much nobody who is infected, is really able to really suppress the virus.  So, most likely, very few people are truly asymptomatic as well.

Anyway, this is just discussing visible sores on your skin.  Once infected, the virus is active in your body in all people, interacts with your genome, messes with  telomeres, and probably various other things that people are just beginning to understand.  

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Balancelife
On 5/11/2019 at 8:13 AM, Clunk 2.0 said:

Guys. As emotionally and psychologically damaging as HSV is, it IS NOT life threatening. In comparison to cancer and other more fatal blood bourne diseases.

(Edit: HSV is a viral skin condition FYI. Sadly it is so massively fu**ing stigmatised those with it have a lower quality of life due to embarrassment and fear of rejection of a potential partner - thus in turn increases the spreading of HSV as those fear being alone and play dumb/plead ignorance and not disclose)

Aside from a very rare few that get outbreaks - most don’t. Rather than work on a cure. They need to f**k the stigma off! I was never told in sex Ed in school about herpes what-so-ever! Nothing! They never told us condoms won’t protect you completely from herpes! They never told us someone can have herpes and never know or even have had cold sores as a kid and pass it on downstairs as “herpes” during oral sex - despite not having any symptoms... etc etc.

The lack of understanding of HSV (both type 1 and 2) and this “only dirty people get herpes” BS mentality is what fuels stigma.

The youth of today are the adults of the future. Sex Ed needs to start including such a shitty virus that is so overlooked by medical professions but screws over the lives of the poor bastards that have the misfortune of being diagnosed with it.

Oh removing sites such as reddit would help too. Googling herpes on a search engine and that shitty site popping up with douchebags spewing their ignorance all over it did NOT help one little bit to me after I was diagnosed. 

Actually HSV infections can lead to morbidity especially in immunocompromised people. It can cause encephalitis which can be deadly and if hsv spread to areas with eczema it can also be deadly. Not to mention blindness if spread to the eyes. 

You're lucky to have very few symptoms but you’re not everyone and this is a very very big deal for a lot of people. I for one have very few sores that always clear quickly but the pain I always feel all over my body though, that is debilitating.  It has yet to go away even though the sores cleared going on 7weeks now. 

Considering there are billions of people with hsv in the world, there is certainly monetary value in developing a cure. Even if you don’t agree there is a humanitarian reason because it’s not a big deal to you. Smh 

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WilsoInAus

@balancedlife any virus can cause what you describe. 

Your all over body issues are not caused by herpes. It’s likely whatever ailment you have impacted your immune system to allow an outbreak to occur.

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Balancelife
1 minute ago, WilsoInAus said:

@balancedlife any virus can cause what you describe. 

Your all over body issues are not caused by herpes. It’s likely whatever ailment you have impacted your immune system to allow an outbreak to occur.

It’s actually very common for women to have pains down their legs (which is where most of the pain is) and flu like aches are also common. I also have pain in my coccyx area which is where the ganglia nerve cluster is that the virus lives in. The pain always starts there for me and is my Predome. This virus infects the nervous system and absolutely is the cause for my pain. But thanks for diagnosing me! 

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WilsoInAus
7 minutes ago, Balancelife said:

It’s actually very common for women to have pains down their legs (which is where most of the pain is) and flu like aches are also common. I also have pain in my coccyx area which is where the ganglia nerve cluster is that the virus lives in. The pain always starts there for me and is my Predome. This virus infects the nervous system and absolutely is the cause for my pain. But thanks for diagnosing me! 

Yes it infects the nerves but that doesn’t mean it causes issues. 

Most of what you describe is common to people with and without herpes and is often a back issue. However sometimes it may be related to herpes.

None of this is all over your body though.

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Balancelife
30 minutes ago, WilsoInAus said:

Yes it infects the nerves but that doesn’t mean it causes issues. 

Most of what you describe is common to people with and without herpes and is often a back issue. However sometimes it may be related to herpes.

None of this is all over your body though.

Oh, I get it. You’re the leading expert and researcher of the world on HSV. May I ask, why haven’t YOU found the cure yet? Or maybe I can just conclude that you don’t really know and shouldn’t presume to tell others that their symptoms are unrelated just because your narrow mind thinks it’s not what you experience. 

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WilsoInAus
10 minutes ago, Balancelife said:

Oh, I get it. You’re the leading expert and researcher of the world on HSV. May I ask, why haven’t YOU found the cure yet? Or maybe I can just conclude that you don’t really know and shouldn’t presume to tell others that their symptoms are unrelated just because your narrow mind thinks it’s not what you experience. 

I think you need to reflect upon why my comments make you seem angry.

I am relating to you the observations of scientific studies and populace experience with herpes. It is up to you to determine whether you believe you depart from this observed population norm and for what reasons.

So yes, we are required to tell people to think very carefully about so termed atypical symptoms as they may very well be typical symptoms of another more serious ailment.

I don’t diagnose, I encourage you to undiagnose.

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Balancelife
6 minutes ago, WilsoInAus said:

I think you need to reflect upon why my comments make you seem angry.

I am relating to you the observations of scientific studies and populace experience with herpes. It is up to you to determine whether you believe you depart from this observed population norm and for what reasons.

So yes, we are required to tell people to think very carefully about so termed atypical symptoms as they may very well be typical symptoms of another more serious ailment.

I don’t diagnose, I encourage you to undiagnose.

Do I seem angry? Maybe you should reflect as to why you assumed my sarcasm was anger. You seem to assume a lot. 

I WAS actually diagnosed by a trained medical professional and it DOES correspond with specific scientific studies. And more directly affects women. 

What you were doing was pointing out the populace experience. Which is not the case for me. 

My initial post was to point out that there are people who suffer much more than the populace hence a greater need for a cure for those of us who suffer greatly. Thanks for trying to diminish the validity of my statement by denying my suffering is because of this virus. 

Also, in the future maybe you could read a post in context before commenting. Thanks. 

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WilsoInAus

@Balancelife yes I did read that is why I responded.

You claimed all over body symptoms as s self diagnosis result of herpes, which I have suggested were more than likely something else.

These have not been diagnosed as being caused by herpes. 

My message is do not self diagnose  and keep an open mind.

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Balancelife
1 minute ago, WilsoInAus said:

@Balancelife yes I did read that is why I responded.

You claimed all over body symptoms as s self diagnosis result of herpes, which I have suggested were more than likely something else.

These have not been diagnosed as being caused by herpes. 

My message is do not self diagnose  and keep an open mind.

Wow, I never said “a self diagnosis result of herpes”. You ASSUMED that. 

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WilsoInAus
Just now, Balancelife said:

Wow, I never said “a self diagnosis result of herpes”. You ASSUMED that. 

No, you said “pain I feel all over my body” which you stated was caused by herpes.

I suggested you might want to rethink that as there are far more plausible explanations. It may be dangerous to disregard alternatives.

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Kurdt01

You have to ignore Wilso, he tells everyone they don't have herpes. 

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WilsoInAus
8 minutes ago, Kurdt01 said:

You have to ignore Wilso, he tells everyone they don't have herpes. 

Where did I say she didn't have herpes?

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T9000
2 hours ago, WilsoInAus said:

@balancedlife any virus can cause what you describe. 

Your all over body issues are not caused by herpes. It’s likely whatever ailment you have impacted your immune system to allow an outbreak to occur.

Where did you get your MD?

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WilsoInAus
1 minute ago, T9000 said:

Where did you get your MD?

I have degrees and PhDs in areas of biology and statistics from Sydney University and Macquarie University. 

But what has that got to do with encouraging people to look after their bodies and keep an open mind as to their issues?

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Balancelife
49 minutes ago, Kurdt01 said:

You have to ignore Wilso, he tells everyone they don't have herpes. 

Thanks for the heads up 😉 I could tell he’s resorted to a herpes support page for his internet trolling. 

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WilsoInAus
Just now, Balancelife said:

Thanks for the heads up 😉 I could tell he’s resorted to a herpes support page for his internet trolling. 

Trolling means exaggerating issues to scare people... don’t i do the opposite?

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T9000
6 hours ago, Balancelife said:

Actually HSV infections can lead to morbidity especially in immunocompromised people. It can cause encephalitis which can be deadly and if hsv spread to areas with eczema it can also be deadly. Not to mention blindness if spread to the eyes. 

You're lucky to have very few symptoms but you’re not everyone and this is a very very big deal for a lot of people. I for one have very few sores that always clear quickly but the pain I always feel all over my body though, that is debilitating.  It has yet to go away even though the sores cleared going on 7weeks now. 

Considering there are billions of people with hsv in the world, there is certainly monetary value in developing a cure. Even if you don’t agree there is a humanitarian reason because it’s not a big deal to you. Smh 

It’s funny because when people write posts like the one you're responding to, they always talk about herpes not being a big deal medically speaking (as if this is the first time were hearing it), but only consider it's effects in western countries. They never consider what the consequences of herpes infections might be like in places where hsv testing and treatment is much harder to come by. Diarrhea is one of leading causes of death for children worldwide. This is a thing that's literally considered a joke for Western children. Consider the huge contrast there. People need to have more perspective about this.

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T9000
3 hours ago, WilsoInAus said:

I have degrees and PhDs in areas of biology and statistics from Sydney University and Macquarie University. 

But what has that got to do with encouraging people to look after their bodies and keep an open mind as to their issues?

If you don't have a medical degree then it's probably not appropriate for you to be engaging in the act of diagnosis over the internet. Especially after the person has already seen an actual doctor and had the symptoms diagnosed. 

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WilsoInAus

@T9000 I endorse your comments thoroughly.

People ask how can we in the Western world turn a blind eye to herpes suffering??

Well we seem to have no trouble turning a blind eye to the millions of deaths from dystentry each year - so why would we bat an eyelash over herpes.. When if we redirected just 5% of our annual expenditure on defence to clean water and sanitation programs, we’d pretty much eliminate deaths from dystenty in a few years.

But it’s all choice, right?

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WilsoInAus
1 minute ago, T9000 said:

If you don't have a medical degree then it's probably not appropriate for you to be engaging in the act of diagnosis over the internet. Especially after the person has already seen an actual doctor and had the symptoms diagnosed. 

I think you miss the point of my posts. I make those comments to people who have made their own interpretative diagnosis in order to encourage them to have an open mind. Who knows, they might even find the real cause and get better. 

Nothing to lose!

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blurneworder
5 hours ago, WilsoInAus said:

No, you said “pain I feel all over my body” which you stated was caused by herpes.

I suggested you might want to rethink that as there are far more plausible explanations. It may be dangerous to disregard alternatives.

You may want to rethink this based on endless evidence by members on this forum.

I challenge you to stop being a moron

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