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Ohsotired
41 minutes ago, Miss Horne said:

@Ohsotired

Ok, I’m not sure why you are so negative about my post? Perhaps you are frustrated that research isn’t progressing fast enough, perhaps you are suffering everyday? Well we all are.

That’s why myself and Mike Herp (mainly Mike) set up the Fred Hutch donations fund, so that this community could hopefully speed up research and it’s actually done that.

I’m not going to get drawn into a slinging match with you and I won’t be responding to any other comments you leave on this thread but please if you have any other suggestions on how to expedite the research or anything that can help us find a cure sooner then I’m all ears.

Please don’t take this personally but there’s way too much negativity on this forum, it’s not something we need and in the long run it doesn’t help anyone. 

@Miss Horne

Let me first clear the air. I’m not negative about your post. I simply gave my opinion just as I did with @Cas9 & @hk81. 
 

There is no slinging match. I guess I’m not allowed to voice anything unless it is what you want to hear. I will continue to contribute to the Fred Hutch Campaign as I do monthly. Thanks @MikeHerp for setting it up and providing continual updates. 
 

 

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MikeHerp

I guess it could take 20 years. But I personally don’t think it will take that long. As Cas9 mentioned getting started and figuring something out takes a lot of time.

what I would focus on is the progress that was made in the last few years.

2014 - 50% editing in vitro.

2016-2-4% latent hsv disrupted in mice

2018 - 20/30%+ latent hsv disrupted in mice

2019-50/90%+ latent hsv destroyed in mice 

2020-moving on to guinea pigs. / testing against HSV2 (temporarily delayed due to covid29)

I don’t believe the guinea pigs will start at 2-4%. My guess is they will start at a significant/high% removal. The main question will be whether the same AAVs that go in mouse neurons will work the same in pigs or whether they have to switch AAVs and whether the effect on HSV2 is similar to HSV1. I think these are issues that we will know the answer in the coming months to a year. 

The point is that, I don’t think pigs/primates will require reinventing the wheel. More likely tweaking what is already known to work, 

I do think that it’s possible that the research could hit an obstacle at some point. Every research does. But I’ve been impressed how fast this team has solved obstacles so far. 

 

 

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Ohsotired

@MikeHerp

Thanks for providing a timeline of progress. It was very informative.

I do have a question regarding your comment about HSV2 & HSV1.

The main question will be whether the same AAVs that go in mouse neurons will work the same in pigs or whether they have to switch AAVs and whether the effect on HSV2 is similar to HSV1.

It is my understanding that Dr. Jerome was able to destroy a higher percentage of the viral load in the TG. Am I incorrect? 
 

Did he have the same rate of success eliminating HSV2 in mice? 
 

The point is that, I don’t think pigs/primates will require reinventing the wheel. More likelytweaking what is already known to work.

When he reaches this point, the work will be done to prove efficacy? If shown effective, this gives reasons to move to clinical trial? Correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

FINGERS CROSSED FOR A SPEEDY PROCESS. Prayerfully, COVID doesn’t hold up progress any longer. 

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MikeHerp
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Ohsotired said:

@MikeHerp

Thanks for providing a timeline of progress. It was very informative.

I do have a question regarding your comment about HSV2 & HSV1.

It is my understanding that Dr. Jerome was able to destroy a higher percentage of the viral load in the TG. Am I incorrect? 
 

Did he have the same rate of success eliminating HSV2 in mice? 
 

The point is that, I don’t think pigs/primates will require reinventing the wheel. More likelytweaking what is already known to work.

Whenhe reaches this point, the work will be done to prove efficacy? If shown effective, this gives reasons to move to clinical trial? Correct me if I’m wrong. 

FINGERS CROSSED FOR A SPEEDY PROCESS. Prayerfully, COVID doesn’t hold up progress any longer. 

1.  Actually, it's the other way around.  He had greater success in the SCG (over 90%), than in the TG (up to 60%).  However, in the last presentation, he highlighted a method that seems likely to significantly increase the editing in the TG which Jerome hopes woulds also get the TG into the 90%+ range.  

Regarding HSV2, he hasn't tried it against HSV2, but the purpose of the guinea pig studies will be to also try it against HSV2.  Dr. Jerome explained that, traditionally most of the HSV research in mice, has been with HSV1.  So they also started with HSV1 because the model is well known and documented.  For HSV2, the standard is the guinea pig, and part of the reason of moving into the guinea pigs, is to also test it for HSV2.  Dr. Jerome has made it clear that they are pursuing a cure for both HSV1 and 2.  

2.  Dr. Jerome has said that, he thinks that, in terms of effectiveness, they are roughly there where they need to be to create a powerful therapeutic effect (at least for HSV1 so far, it still needs testing against HSV2).  In the 2014 presentation, he referred to 50% disruption of HSV as a "functional cure".  He may have been using that term loosely as representing a huge decrease in shedding and outbreaks, rather than a complete elimination.  But considering that explanation, I think there's hope that 90%+ removal would lead to elimination of symptoms and make shedding so rare, that it might be inconsequential or below transmissible levels.  I'm extrapolating/guessing here, we'll have to see.  But in terms of effectiveness, it's likely he has a ready product.  So the question is how good it will be against HSV2 and how safe it will be.

Regarding safety, so far so good.  No cell toxicity found and I read earlier research which suggests that the meganuclerases which Jerome is using, while they are harder to manipulate than CRISPR,  have a favorable safety profile relative to CRISPR/Cas9.  They are more specific regarding what they target.

So there are some reasons to be optimistic.  

Edited by MikeHerp

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Ohsotired

@MikeHerp

Thank you! Let’s get a move on to those pigs 🐁🐽 (sorry! There were no hamster/guinea pig emojis😂

I’m stoked! Praying for success. 
 

In most trials, only healthy participants are selected. Are individuals with immunological concerns allowed to participate during Phase III?

 

I may have to break in the building if not. Just kidding, but 😆😝😏

8AC76CE5-0862-4E50-B528-32F1EC8CC46D.gif

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MikeHerp

This is what Dr. Jerome explained last year to our group.  i'm reprinting it here.  

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The questions were:

1. The current work has been only with HSV-1.  Does this research also advance an HSV-2 cure?  

2.  Will this research advance a cure for HSV in only a certain location, or is the intention to target any location?  (e.g., is this aimed at finding only a genital or only an oral HSV cure?) 

The replies via FHC's philanthropy manager, came directly from Dr. Jerome.

Larson, Andrea M To Mike Oct 29 at 3:32 AM

Hi Mike,

I have received an answer to your question below, directly from Dr. Jerome:

Yes, we are absolutely working toward a cure for both HSV-1 and HSV-2! The reason so much of our work so far has dealt with HSV-1 is that there was more pre-existing literature in the mouse model for HSV-1 than HSV-2, and because all the reagents were already available to do the studies in HSV-1. We know that the biology of HSV-1 and HSV-2 is quite similar, so starting with HSV-1 was a great way to show that gene editing could be effective, and lay the groundwork for HSV-2.

So now we’re expanding our efforts to work on both HSV-1 and HSV-2. In fact, that’s another big reason to work with the guinea pigs - HSV-2 infection in guinea pigs has been studied a lot, so we have a good base to build on. And we’re actively working to gather or generate all the HSV-2 specific reagents we’ll need.

Another important point is that we are working toward treatments for HSV infections at both orofacial and anogenital sites. The nerves in these areas are slightly different, so we’re tweaking the details of our therapy so that we can treat HSV-1 or HSV-2, at whichever site the infection is.

 

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WilsoInAus
27 minutes ago, MikeHerp said:

This is what Dr. Jerome explained last year to our group.  i'm reprinting it here.  

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The questions were:

1. The current work has been only with HSV-1.  Does this research also advance an HSV-2 cure?  

2.  Will this research advance a cure for HSV in only a certain location, or is the intention to target any location?  (e.g., is this aimed at finding only a genital or only an oral HSV cure?) 

The replies via FHC's philanthropy manager, came directly from Dr. Jerome.

Larson, Andrea M To Mike Oct 29 at 3:32 AM

Hi Mike,

I have received an answer to your question below, directly from Dr. Jerome:

Yes, we are absolutely working toward a cure for both HSV-1 and HSV-2! The reason so much of our work so far has dealt with HSV-1 is that there was more pre-existing literature in the mouse model for HSV-1 than HSV-2, and because all the reagents were already available to do the studies in HSV-1. We know that the biology of HSV-1 and HSV-2 is quite similar, so starting with HSV-1 was a great way to show that gene editing could be effective, and lay the groundwork for HSV-2.

So now we’re expanding our efforts to work on both HSV-1 and HSV-2. In fact, that’s another big reason to work with the guinea pigs - HSV-2 infection in guinea pigs has been studied a lot, so we have a good base to build on. And we’re actively working to gather or generate all the HSV-2 specific reagents we’ll need.

Another important point is that we are working toward treatments for HSV infections at both orofacial and anogenital sites. The nerves in these areas are slightly different, so we’re tweaking the details of our therapy so that we can treat HSV-1 or HSV-2, at whichever site the infection is.

 

STOP

This is NOT the group being referred to. You are referring to your reddit group that would appear to harbour racism and other atrocious behaviours.

This is an international website that supports all people with herpes.

You have been asked multiple times to stay away from this website in order that people may feel safe from you and other cronies. 

You are not the face of Fred Hutch fund raising.

You do not have HSV at all.

It is time to start a movement; if we want updates from Fred Hutch, then can we please have then from @Cas9 who actually understands the science and actually has genital herpes. 

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shadowgirl88
3 minutes ago, WilsoInAus said:

STOP

This is NOT the group being referred to. You are referring to your reddit group that would appear to harbour racism and other atrocious behaviours.

This is an international website that supports all people with herpes.

You have been asked multiple times to stay away from this website in order that people may feel safe from you and other cronies. 

You are not the face of Fred Hutch fund raising.

You do not have HSV at all.

It is time to start a movement; if we want updates from Fred Hutch, then can we please have then from @Cas9 who actually understands the science and actually has genital herpes. 

His profile states that he has ghsv2
 

I haven’t seen any racial profiling from this man. What are you talking about?

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hk81
3 hours ago, WilsoInAus said:

You are referring to your reddit group that would appear to harbour racism and other atrocious behaviours.

now you're making me lose my tolerance. There is a limit on how much shit you can throw on people, you know?
Here you are being unrespectful and discrediting a group of people and another community, trying to force people away from that community to promote yours.

We have never done such things that you say and the hostility that people develop against your is nothing else than your own fault for being hostile to the opinion of other people. We have actually promoted honeycomb several times, while you are doing the opposite. We are putting a lot of effort and energy to support and connect other people, so that the right informations can reach the right audience. And you are selfishly discrediting and trashing all that.

What is not acceptable here is your attitude. I ask to the moderators of this forum to do something with this person; it's beyond tolerability that a person that presents himself as representative for an online community take pride in such public offensive actions against other communities.

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Miss Horne

Mike isn’t racist and he has done more to help our case than anyone else on this forum. Wilso is a troll, just ignore him. 

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WilsoInAus

@hk81 yes there is a limit to how much shit can be thrown and it would appear from the number of complaints against Mike and the reddit group that you are well beyond the limit. I'm sorry to say but that group has disrespected people for their views, deleted them and blocked them with churlish comments.

You state that the reddit community has promoted Honeycomb several times? Where? it should be easy to link to a few comments then that show support? 

People who have joined this community report nothing but denigration toward Honeycomb, that people are misled here as people dare to explore truths and question things such as whether gene editing will ever be a feasible solution for HSV.

Why exactly does your comment in bold not apply to the reddit community? That feels like a self reflection to me and no doubt others.

As an example, here are some of the the queries that have been discarded, deleted and silenced on the reddit group yet fortunately can be asked and explored here:

  1. If gene editing does not reach 100% elimination of infected cells what is the chance and over what time period might the virus will repopulate?
  2. Even if the payload reaches 100% of cells what is the proportion of virus that is not cut enabling a chance of repopulation?
  3. In what proportion of cells might the cut virus reattach?
  4. What is the chance that reattched virus strands contain mutants that might ultimately make the situation worse?
  5. Even if 'cured' there is a chance you can be infected again. Hence isn't gene editing potentially quite useless without a preventative vaccine?
  6. How much less effective or difficult is a second treatment owing to the body's built immunity?
  7. What likely other treatments such as for cancer may use a the same vector or one that is impacted by the body's immunity such that you may be better off not having the HSV gene editing applied to you?
  8. What is the likely accessibility to HSV gene editing treatment given its price point?

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WilsoInAus
6 hours ago, shadowgirl88 said:

His profile states that he has ghsv2
 

I haven’t seen any racial profiling from this man. What are you talking about?

No that is a self diagnosis. Mike has never tested positive for HSV-2.

Luckily Mike doesn't have any authorities here, however over at reddit..... watch out!!

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Miss Horne
Posted (edited)

Well I see that after a years absence from this forum nothing has changed. The forum has a of lot of knowledge and can be a source of support for those who need it but it’s also toxic, there is too much negativity and pure hatred here at times.

The abuse that @MikeHerp receives on this forum is the final straw. I hope that he doesn’t abandon ship because if he does trust me nobody else will fight your corner and you might as well forget about any hope of finding a cure in the future. He has done so much for this community and I am saddened by the way he’s been treated. 

Most of those who I befriended when I joined have since left the forum and moved on with their lives and that’s what I shall be doing from today so farewell for the very last time. Good luck to you all.

Miss Horne ❤️

Edited by Miss Horne

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Ohsotired

@Miss Horne

I always wonder why @MikeHerp is attacked! I don’t get it.
 

I get discouraged at times, but I don’t try to tear anyone down.

SMH! It’s too early and close to Sunday to be mean. 

Color me confused! Keep up the great work @MikeHerp

471F6053-7BC2-4CFA-95DF-1B6629A5774A.gif

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Just a human being
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Miss Horne said:

Well I see that after a years absence from this forum nothing has changed. The forum has a of lot of knowledge and can be a source of support for those who need it but it’s also toxic, there is too much negativity and pure hatred here at times.

The abuse that @MikeHerp receives on this forum is the final straw. I hope that he doesn’t abandon ship because if he does trust me nobody else will fight your corner and you might as well forget about any hope of finding a cure in the future. He has done so much for this community and I am saddened by the way he’s been treated. 

Most of those who I befriended when I joined have since left the forum and moved on with their lives and that’s what I shall be doing from today so farewell for the very last time. Good luck to you all.

Miss Horne ❤️

You shouldn’t leave just because of one minor issue. Most people are great! Unfortunately there will always be one or two people that you need to work around. It’s unavoidable! If you abandon ship over something only so minor who will stick by the Fred Hutch Crew?

Lots has changed since you were here last you’ve just got the wrong filter on! 😘🥰🥰😘😘

I don’t take symptoms of ill health the wrong way no more... they are just temporary and in a way can serve a purpose!

Edited by Just a human being

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Ohsotired

So I took a look at some questions that were allegedly discarded or deleted. I would like to view & discuss them. 
 

  1. Even if 'cured' there is a chance you can be infected again. Hence isn't gene editing potentially quite useless without a preventative vaccine?     I thought that Dr. Jerome addressed those. If my memory serves me correctly , Dr. Jerome said that after editing a vaccine would ensure that the affected person would be further protected. The gycloprotein trivalent vaccine should be available. My thoughts, not his. 
  2. How much less effective or difficult is a second treatment owing to the body's built immunity?   Any thoughts?  🧐
  3. What likely other treatments such as for cancer may use a the same vector or one that is impacted by the body's immunity such that you may be better off not having the HSV gene editing applied to you? 🤓 I am not a scientist, but I did read that there are different vectors other than AAVs. Zinc Finger Nucleases (ZFNs) are another type of vector. 
  4. What is the likely accessibility to HSVgene editing treatment given its price point? 🤔 I have not seen any reference to price points for this therapy. Has anyone read anything about the potential costs when it becomes available? 
     

DA87F45D-FD5B-4601-8569-72DB9C658C47.gif

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WilsoInAus

No @Miss Horne this website hasn't changed at all. @MikeHerp does not receive abuse, he is simply held account for the abuse that he has inflicted on many people some of which are members now on this website. 

Abandon what ship? MIke has his own reddit group that he represents. Dr Jerome is not giving up thank goodness and he would be abhorred at what goes on surrounding representations of his work and how people are treated in the reddit group.

There is no need to feel sad for people simply because they are held to account. What about all the people who Mike has actually abused and deleted from his forum simply because they have herpes and wish to raise some questions about what he believes in. Surely you have some compassion for them. I feel sad for them, for sure. I also feel sorry for Mike. Although he has had a chance to grow in the past year, it is apparent he has not and we get more people regularly coming here for support.

This website is about supporting people with herpes, not just supporting research into cures. I hope you can stay such that people can benefit and learn from your experience with herpes.

 

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hk81
Posted (edited)

@Miss Horne, @Ohsotired

Wilso is attacking anyone that tries to mine his ideas.

@WilsoInAus

Don't play the fool. All those questions are implying that you accept that reinfection is possible. The only person that I know that doesn't accept the possibility of reinfection here is YOU. I have challenged you several times on this point and I have seen many people bringing you to this discussion. And you always misdirect them. Perhaps you should have a talk with a serious virologist.
How comes that now you are taking the side of people that are afraid of reinfection?

Mike has always discussed openly about the possibility of repopulation, when asked. I have never seen him discrediting any of us for that question. Nevertheless, I don't see a reason to condemn someone as much as you do for avoiding an interaction on those topics. Is the therapy already available? no. Are the researchers still trying to improve it and gain more understanding on it? yes. So no one here is putting the health of people in danger. The danger arises when someone forces other people to believe things that can result in a concrete risk for their health.

How is it even possible that people's complaints for the reddit group reach only you? You are not even a moderator and not more visible than other people here. Why did so many people miss such large evidences, as you say?

And: there is a big difference between deleting comments of people (or replying pertinently to those comments) and flooding threads with personal accuses to discredit someone, on things that are not directly related to the discussion. A mature enough person should be able to understand that.

Here it is an example that we promoted honeycomb by directing people to discussions on this forum:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HerpesCureResearch/comments/grwpb2/study_with_homeopathic_medicine_started_in_europe/

 

Edited by hk81

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WilsoInAus

@hk81 I think you are confusing autoinnoculation with reinfection. In the context here they are two separate things.

I am aware only of complaints that some newer members here have written to me about. I suggest they will only be a fraction of the total.

A mature person holds others to account for their behaviours, something you seem to agree with. I have asked to multiple times as to what are you doing about the complaints. Have you posted requesting feedback at reddit?

I had a look at the link... that is scarcely a mention, it certainly doesn't direct anyone anywhere. Where is a link to a promotion? 

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Misterx

Seriously for the sake of this forum, someone has to ban wilsonaus. He is actually mentally ill. Please ignore him all of you, he feeds on this everyday as he doesnt have friends.

Do not waste your time and energy on this mentally fucked person. He needs help but not from you guys.

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hk81

Reinfection with the same strain and autoinoculation are both related to a failure of the existing immunity to provide complete protection. That's the relevant aspect in the discussion; so, no, I'm not confusing things. FHC therapy has nothing to do with the immune system and this is clear also to a child of the primary school. As Ohsotired said, this will be addressed by the vaccines that are researched and the existing immunity (a low viral load is better addressed by the immune system than a larger viral load).

"A mature person holds others to account for their behaviours": yes, in the right context. And I know already the feedback of the other users in Reddit about these topics. The only behavior that is not accepted is when someone continuously opposes the point of view/experiences of others, denying their condition and possible risks for health.

The link is directing people to this forum and it was done also in other threads.
"Where is a link to a promotion?" Referral is an act of promoting something. Are you always that mean and unappreciative?

I'm going to stop the discussion here, because this is not the right place. And I don't want/need to gather attention on me.

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Stolo868
23 minutes ago, Misterx said:

Seriously for the sake of this forum, someone has to ban wilsonaus. He is actually mentally ill. Please ignore him all of you, he feeds on this everyday as he doesnt have friends.

Do not waste your time and energy on this mentally fucked person. He needs help but not from you guys.

Wilsoisanus troll sucks Muscha 🐷 checked info!

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MikeHerp
2 hours ago, Ohsotired said:

So I took a look at some questions that were allegedly discarded or deleted. I would like to view & discuss them. 
 

  1. Even if 'cured' there is a chance you can be infected again. Hence isn't gene editing potentially quite useless without a preventative vaccine?     I thought that Dr. Jerome addressed those. If my memory serves me correctly , Dr. Jerome said that after editing a vaccine would ensure that the affected person would be further protected. The gycloprotein trivalent vaccine should be available. My thoughts, not his. 
  2. How much less effective or difficult is a second treatment owing to the body's built immunity?   Any thoughts?  🧐
  3. What likely other treatments such as for cancer may use a the same vector or one that is impacted by the body's immunity such that you may be better off not having the HSV gene editing applied to you? 🤓 I am not a scientist, but I did read that there are different vectors other than AAVs. Zinc Finger Nucleases (ZFNs) are another type of vector. 
  4. What is the likely accessibility to HSVgene editing treatment given its price point? 🤔 I have not seen any reference to price points for this therapy. Has anyone read anything about the potential costs when it becomes available? 
     

DA87F45D-FD5B-4601-8569-72DB9C658C47.gif

1. Right. Dr Jerome addresses this point at the end of the November video. Reinfection might be a possibility, so prophylactic vaccines would be useful.

2. Dr Jerome also explained that retreating might be possible with immune suppressants. He seemed not too concerned about such an issue.

3. Interesting question. Though as Dr Jerome suggests, there might be ways around the body’s immunity.

4. Price is an open question. It hasn’t been discussed. Gene “therapy” treatments are currently very expensive, but that’s partly because the alternative treatments are also super expensive.  For hsv, it’s not the case. Further, hsv is not rare.These suggest downward price pressures. But we will have to see. It’s not an the point where we need to worry about that. 

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WilsoInAus

@hk81 you are missing the point. If cured, your immunity will fade leaving you exposed to becoming infected like the person was the first time. The immune system doesn’t fail. 
I think we are in agreement that having the real discussion is better for everyone including your health. 
for example there is agreement we need a preventative vaccine otherwise the gene editing is rather pointless - so which vaccine will it be and what support should we provide?

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WilsoInAus
4 hours ago, Misterx said:

Seriously for the sake of this forum, someone has to ban wilsonaus. He is actually mentally ill. Please ignore him all of you, he feeds on this everyday as he doesnt have friends.

Do not waste your time and energy on this mentally fucked person. He needs help but not from you guys.

This exemplifies the issue. You ask for banning on someone who simply speaks the truth and asks for high standards of behaviour. You ask for someone to be banned that you dislike, who is different to you. 
At reddit I am sure I would be banned. 
Here though is more inclusive and that’s something to be proud of 

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