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positive

Just need to vent

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positive

Ok so I went to this NYE party last night with my close guy friends from high school including their wives, girlfriend etc. I’ve know them for a long time since I’m in my thirties.

Come to find out in the middle of our drunken escapades that Bill (not his name) has been farming his wife out to our other friends. So he tells me that Craig has been sleeping with his wife for some time now and there is a good chance he will NYE. Now Craig’s wife doesn’t know about his cheating which we all know is wrong. Then Bill tells me that Joe has been sleeping with his wife too. When Bill goes out of town for business and such Joe takes over his husbandly duties. Joe’s girlfriend doesn’t know about this activity either. So Bill tells me that when Craig and his wife get busy he’s going to slip into my bedroom. I tell him well I’ll cuddle and make out but “I’m seeing someone”. For a guy who is basically living the swinger lifestyle he accepted that boundary just fine.

Now imagine this, what if I didn’t know I had herpes and I sleep with Bill. Then Bill sleeps with his wife who gives it to the rest of the guys who then pass it along to their wives/girlfriends. That could really happen. So my rant is what the f*ck are my friends doing. Everyone is so casual about sex. I guess before getting herpes I can’t say I was any better. I mean yeah I wasn’t having randoms but how well do you know someone after dating 5 weeks and you get physical. Besides I don’t know anyone who has used protection giving head to someone. People don’t think that is a risk. It’s all a risk and nobody talks about it. We all say “safe sex” but it’s used so much it has no meaning. People don’t know what safe sex really is or means and that’s why herpes and other STD’s are spreading around like they are. And that is why I will never feel badly about my status. It can happen to anyone. Virus’ don’t know your morals. This whole “dirty” bullshit is ridiculous and puritanical. But I just think how can we truly eduate the public on what SAFE really means! And what the F*ck about my stupid friends. I’m sure everyone will think they are scum because of this story but they aren’t they are just making bad decisions. And I’ve heard of so many of the people I know cheating, divorcing and it’s just a mess.

So that’s my rant thanks for listening

Hope you had a great New Years at least I have another chapter for my memoire……lol

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catiesmom

Thanks for sharing your story. I think about this too when i watch Will and Grace -- they're ALWAYS sleeping with someone, and they joke about doing it on a first date. Statistically, they would HAVE to have herpes!

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tothefuture

I can't help thinking that about my friend.

She's lovely and is married now - and totally monogamous.

But prior to getting married she slept with well over 100 men and to my knowledge never used condoms.

Well surely she has to have it??!!

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shutterbug

This story is incredible, and really just makes me wonder how we ALL dont have it already! I am not promiscuous by any means - I was married for 5 years (together for 10) with my ex, and have only really just entered back into the "dating pool" this past year only to contract HSV2 from the second guy I've been with since my divorce... And he's an Ivy-League graduate with his own company, so there goes any stereotype I may have had (and I'm not a judgemental person by any means, but the stigma is there, and I was guilty of it as well!)

What really kills me is that there are people out there with the herp (whether it be oral, genital, whatever...) who don't even know all the facts... My co-worker gets cold-sores all the time, and she had no idea it was herpes, and just today she was telling me that her boyfriend developed a coldsore as well... then she laughed and shrugged it off like it was nothing!

DUDE!! UNREAL!!

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estoy_perdida

question to you...

Positive,

I don't know you so I may be stepping out of the line, but why would you even say that you would tell "Bill" that you two could cuddle and make out but you are seeing someone. If he is married-why would you be willing to do that anyway?! And if you're seeing someone-why would you be willing to do that anyway?! And if you think what they are doing is wrong-why would you be willing to do that anyway?! It seems like your friends are dirty people that are doing immoral things. Is it really in your best interest to partake in all of that even if you don't go as far as having intercourse with him? You only know about those two other guys sleeping with his wife. There could be others which means his wife could have caught something from someone, gave it to "Bill" who in turn will give it to you when you make out, you could give it to the person you are seeing, and the vicious cycle continues...

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positive

Well let's just clear a few things up here, if Bill and his wife have both freely decided to have an open marriage then who is any person to judge their decision? You can judge them but if people want to live "alternative" lifestyle that's their right. Secondly, I'm not seeing anyone but I just used that as an excuse not to sleep with him. I'm not having 'the talk' on NYE wiht him, come on. So the partaking was just cuddling and a few kisses.

And all I can say is if those peole are "dirty" what is the dirt? Don't you think that sort of thinking is what gives herpes a stigma. Do you think that certain people "deserve" to have std's? Do you think that little virus' and such look for the immorality of people and attach them instead of others? Do you think you are "dirty"? We must change our few on sex if we want our society to have healthy few of sex and intimacy.

Yeah, you can say the dudes cheating on their wives, yes that is immoral but the "dirt" comment come on!!!

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estoy_perdida

I did not say that the "dirtiness" was about any kind of std/sti. I did mean that being dirty was partaking in the kind of immoral things they are doing, like cheating ("open relationship"-whatever people want to call it). I do think, however, that having that kind of relationship is what can give people that kind of stigma about people with std's. Let's say that something was transferred-be it herpes or something else-in that case, yes, they are dirty and not helping to dissolve the stigma people have now.

No, I do not think viruses look for immorality. A virus has found me and I was not immoral or unfaithful. Living the kind of lifestyle that is that "i don't give a shit what I do or who I hurt because I'm invisible" lifestyle does hurt people-moral people that were minding their own business thinking their lover actually loved them and would never cheat on them. Thinking that they could never catch anything because both parties were faithful. Naive. Yes, you are correct. We as a people must change our view on sex and sexual relationships. That's why I despise those that live their sexual lives like your friends. They aren't helping the situation.

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skydreams
Well let's just clear a few things up here, if Bill and his wife have both freely decided to have an open marriage then who is any person to judge their decision? You can judge them but if people want to live "alternative" lifestyle that's their right. Secondly, I'm not seeing anyone but I just used that as an excuse not to sleep with him. I'm not having 'the talk' on NYE wiht him, come on. So the partaking was just cuddling and a few kisses.

And all I can say is if those peole are "dirty" what is the dirt? Don't you think that sort of thinking is what gives herpes a stigma. Do you think that certain people "deserve" to have std's? Do you think that little virus' and such look for the immorality of people and attach them instead of others? Do you think you are "dirty"? We must change our few on sex if we want our society to have healthy few of sex and intimacy.

Yeah, you can say the dudes cheating on their wives, yes that is immoral but the "dirt" comment come on!!!

I'm all for being open minded and respecting other people's decisions to do whatever they please, but I've got no problem having everyone label me as narrow minded by stating that I have every right to think swingers are disgusting and incredibly immoral. I'm not gonna define what marriage is supposed to be, but whatever it is, spouse swapping is not within its parameters. That kind of behavior is something that horny young 20 somethings with no respect for their bodies or intimacy or knowledge of STDS do. They are creating an environment where if anything were to happen, they would not even know who to blame.

What someone does and doesn't have a 'right' to do is irrelevant, they are going to do and think whatever they want, to paraphrase Jack Sparrow.

And I am with estoy_perdida, you need new friends, because the ones you have now are rotting your brain out. As my mom used to say, show me who your friends are... Everyone you allow into your circle of friends influences your way of thinking over time. I couldn't imagine writing off kissing and cuddling with a married man as being 'ok' just because it wasn't intercourse and his wife was fine with it, under any circumstances.

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Herpes Awareness

The 'swinging' lifestyle without awareness of HSV and with regular new partners would greatly incrase your chances of contracting HSV sooner or later, especially in the US with high rates of infection.

This is the reason I am pushing for govts to run more public health information campaigns, through a number of channels.

The 'ABC' model more or less defines the best ways of avoiding STIs, in decreasing order of strength:

A - Abstinence

B - Be faithful (exclusive monogamy, pretty well for life)

C - use Condoms

Presumably D would be 'Don't wear condoms' or 'Dummy' level - but many people are oblivious to the nature and prevalence of HSV -- before HIV/AIDS came along, people were increasingly careless, as antibiotics could clear up most things. There was a movie made in the late 80s as a moral tale about HSV on a resort island, well worth a look, although a little dated now.

With regard to the ABC model, many people say it is puritanical. It is also the model being pushed by the Bush admin in developing countries, especially with high levels of HIV/AIDS. But the scientific reality is that A is safest, B is the next safest, and C is less safe, but provides reasonable protection. Nobody is demanding abstinence from the population, but you certainly are very unlikely to catch STIs from being abstinent. The thing is, passions are such that people will not like A and can just tolerate B. What annoys me is that the public health people in the 80s pushed 'C' as the only reasonable, bearable approach, that condoms would save you from everything, and forget other avenues.

I think there is no mere coincidence that 'conservative' people find promiscuity to be 'immoral' -- being conservative is protective in a health sense, and I believe our morals to some extent have evolved as a protective device. The other possible reason that our morals have developed so is in order to guarantee a stable child-rearing environment in a species that has incredibly high levels of childcare required for a very long period of time -- some 16 years or so, compared to say 6 months for many other mammals. 16 years of guaranteed support for a child requires long-term monogamous commitment from both parents.

Just my 2c, with apologies to Desmond Morris...

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gotitsowhat

Some comments from an aging hippy...

Look, I don't want to rain on your parade, it's your life and all that. And, believe me, I am in no position of moral or any other kind of superiority. When it comes to sex, I'm pretty easygoing.

However, you yourself complained of the overly casual, superficial nature of the activities you encountered (and slightly participated in), and your description of that party and its sexual chaos painted a picture of some kind of bedroom comedy without enough laughs.

So, advice from an old chick: You can't control other people's behavior. Young people tend to be impulsive. You get to decide how impulsive, superficial or chaotic you want your own sex life to be. You get to decide with what friends you wish to associate. You could decide to be the one in your crowd who sets a standard of classy behavior, that is to say, honest, conscious, self-possessed behavior, choosing to do what you think best and not making excuses if you don't want to engage in a particular activity for any reason. You can walk through the chaos and silliness and risky behavior like a cool goddess, doing only what is right and good for you. After all, there's not much you can do about the fact that a lot of people cheat and a lot of people think nothing of putting themselves or others at risk and a lot of people think it romantic (or something...) to grab each other at parties. Just decide how YOU are going to be and let everyone else do whatever they do--they will anyway.

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