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mRNA vaccines questions for people smarter and more educated than me


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Covid was unleashed on humans less than a year ago and scientists have already found a vaccine that will prevent infection and the spread. 

Can the same principles of the Covid vaccine be applied to prevent HSV infection?

Are there mRNA vaccines for HSV in clinical trials now? 

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They just started covid vaccines at my workplace.  I'm going to watch and see how they react  to it. I'm having surgery in about  a week  so I'm holding off on getting the vaccine until after that and talking to my dr. I would definitely be willing to join a clinical trial to cure hsv!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/19/2020 at 9:25 AM, Hml said:

They just started covid vaccines at my workplace.  I'm going to watch and see how they react  to it. I'm having surgery in about  a week  so I'm holding off on getting the vaccine until after that and talking to my dr. I would definitely be willing to join a clinical trial to cure hsv!

I hope your surgery went well. I'm wondering how those of us with HSV will tolerate the Covid vaccine? Will it trigger an OB? Getting the influenza vaccine always does for me. But I guess getting Covid would be worse, right? 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have been considering this as well. In theory mRNA can cure anything. My understanding is the mRNA is like a "temporary gene editor", and it can give instructions to your cells to do practically anything, and then it is supposed to wear off. This could be done to produce an immune response to create a vaccine, or as a therapeutic. I have heard they can cure cancer with mRNA. I believe Moderna had been working on some Herpes biologic using mRNA before they became famous due to Coronavirus. I had heard of Moderna in my HSV research two years before coronavirus became a thing.

Here's some links I was able to pull up:

An HSV-2 nucleoside-modified mRNA genital herpes vaccine containing glycoproteins gC, gD, and gE protects mice against HSV-1 genital lesions and latent infection

Moderna mRNA-1647 vaccine continues to increase durable immune responses after third dose exceeding natural cytomegalovirus infection levels

What is mRNA? How Pfizer and Moderna tapped new tech to make coronavirus vaccines

Quote

Weissman, whose lab at the University of Pennsylvania demonstrated 15 years ago that mRNA could be used in this way, said that prior to the pandemic, he and his colleagues had been working to launch Phase 1 clinical trials of mRNA vaccines for genital herpes, influenza, HIV and the norovirus.

 

Edited by floydmonk
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4 hours ago, floydmonk said:

I have been considering this as well. In theory mRNA can cure anything. My understanding is the mRNA is like a "temporary gene editor", and it can give instructions to your cells to do practically anything, and then it is supposed to wear off. This could be done to produce an immune response to create a vaccine, or as a therapeutic. I have heard they can cure cancer with mRNA. I believe Moderna had been working on some Herpes biologic using mRNA before they became famous due to Coronavirus. I had heard of Moderna in my HSV research two years before coronavirus became a thing.

Here's some links I was able to pull up:

An HSV-2 nucleoside-modified mRNA genital herpes vaccine containing glycoproteins gC, gD, and gE protects mice against HSV-1 genital lesions and latent infection

Moderna mRNA-1647 vaccine continues to increase durable immune responses after third dose exceeding natural cytomegalovirus infection levels

What is mRNA? How Pfizer and Moderna tapped new tech to make coronavirus vaccines

 

Thanks for this. If it's true that the mRNA concept will be applied to other viruses, I wonder when they will be able to focus efforts in that direction and how long the process will be? Will things get fast tracked now or back to a snails pace? 

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I doubt that anything will get fast tracked, as long as the attitude of the FDA toward herpes will not change..

They reason with statistics. Herpes has always been affecting humans and the statistics of deadly cases are very low.

Unless a clear link between herpes and a deadly/disability condition (that affects a large number of people) is established, they won't risk fast tracking something without having run all the required tests. One of such conditions could be Alzheimer (but the link is still unclear); Herpes keratitis, meningitis, encephalitis do not have enough cases.

They could anyway establish early access to people having a serious health risk, like it was done with pritelivir.

Maybe it's worth checking what has been fast tracked previously to understand the criteria

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3 hours ago, hk81 said:

I doubt that anything will get fast tracked, as long as the attitude of the FDA toward herpes will not change..

They reason with statistics. Herpes has always been affecting humans and the statistics of deadly cases are very low.

Unless a clear link between herpes and a deadly/disability condition (that affects a large number of people) is established, they won't risk fast tracking something without having run all the required tests. One of such conditions could be Alzheimer (but the link is still unclear); Herpes keratitis, meningitis, encephalitis do not have enough cases.

They could anyway establish early access to people having a serious health risk, like it was done with pritelivir.

Maybe it's worth checking what has been fast tracked previously to understand the criteria

Great points. Sadly. But maybe the link to HIV transmission in developing countries will be a reason to fast track. But the FDA doesn't have the best track record with reaction time for HIV treatments in developing countries. 😳

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Yes. it's sad that people and their troubles with health become a statistic for the priorities of health regulations..

Also the coronaviruses had been around for long and occasionally they have created epidemics. But until an aggressive mutation is found, the fda will sleep quietly waiting for bad things to happen.

I don't want to scare anyone, but the mutations of coronaviruses and hiv made me wonder what could happen if there will be a bad mutation of hsv, given the slow progress with the therapies in the past year. The wise man is the one that can look at the big picture and be ready to react when things start to happen.

I wonder also if the ones of us that are badly symptomatic are affected by a virulent mutation of hsv.

I won't digress it further, because all the fears that I had for myself became real :(

 

I think that the fastest (and relatively safe) way for us to obtain a treatment is entering a late trial of a successful vaccine or functional cure in the next years

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hopefulforhappiness

For those interested in the current mRNA research being done for HSV I encourage you to check out the work of Dr. Friedman.

 

There is a new fundraiser happening to support his work in order to examine the therapeutic effects of his current prophylactic vaccine. 

http://givingpages.upenn.edu/HSVresearchfund

A goal of $50,000 has been set to help him hire an additional person for his lab dedicated to vaccine research.

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On 1/27/2021 at 12:37 PM, hk81 said:

Yes. it's sad that people and their troubles with health become a statistic for the priorities of health regulations..

Also the coronaviruses had been around for long and occasionally they have created epidemics. But until an aggressive mutation is found, the fda will sleep quietly waiting for bad things to happen.

I don't want to scare anyone, but the mutations of coronaviruses and hiv made me wonder what could happen if there will be a bad mutation of hsv, given the slow progress with the therapies in the past year. The wise man is the one that can look at the big picture and be ready to react when things start to happen.

I wonder also if the ones of us that are badly symptomatic are affected by a virulent mutation of hsv.

I won't digress it further, because all the fears that I had for myself became real :(

 

I think that the fastest (and relatively safe) way for us to obtain a treatment is entering a late trial of a successful vaccine or functional cure in the next years

Well, I've wondered this too. And to put your fears to rest, I know that it's not true, because the person who gave it to me had completely different symptoms and occurrences than me (far less). And my husband's blood test shows that I exposed him but he is asymptomatic. So 3 different people, same strain, 10 or so years apart, completely different symptoms. Hope this helps! 
 

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It has happened differently to me. In the following years after my infection, my mother started developing my same symptoms and in my same locations in the typical parts of the body where herpes is found (from head to genital). I don't live with her and I visit only 2 weeks per year, not living in the nearby.

This has suggested me that either we share the same genetical issue in the immune system (a weakness against herpesviruses), or this strain is quite aggressive and it is attracted by those ganglia where we both have been infected.

Despite following 2 months of suppressive therapy, in these last 2 weeks I started again to develop some bad symptoms

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:49 AM, hk81 said:

It has happened differently to me. In the following years after my infection, my mother started developing my same symptoms and in my same locations in the typical parts of the body where herpes is found (from head to genital). I don't live with her and I visit only 2 weeks per year, not living in the nearby.

This has suggested me that either we share the same genetical issue in the immune system (a weakness against herpesviruses), or this strain is quite aggressive and it is attracted by those ganglia where we both have been infected.

Despite following 2 months of suppressive therapy, in these last 2 weeks I started again to develop some bad symptoms

I have heard others say the same thing about parents or children contracting it despite general contact. So I also wonder about a genetic propensity. I still think that is more likely than the strain itself. Though I know there are many different strains across the globe. It appears that little research has been done in regards to the different strains and if the virus mutates. Do you know if that is correct?! 

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I have found the following article interesting, even if it focuses on herpetic keratitis.

It shows that there is some knowledge that both virulence and genetic characteristic of the host determine the course of the infection. And some of the strains are classified based on their behavior. It's a pity that such an analysis is not offered to the people that experience bad symptoms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3403814/

Have a look at the sections:

Factors influencing acute infection & latency

Viral characteristics

Host characteristics

In my case, I have been told by my mother that when I was a few months old I had a very bad case of chickenpox, from head to feet. I do not know if it was so aggressive because I was too young, or if I have an immune system that is weak against herpesviruses. My sister was 3 years older, she carried the virus at home and she had very mild symptoms.

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  • 1 month later...

I have been considering this as well. In theory mRNA can cure anything. My understanding is the mRNA is like a "temporary gene editor", and it can give instructions to your cells to do practically anything, and then it is supposed to wear off. This could be done to produce an immune response to create a vaccine, or as a therapeutic. I have heard they can cure cancer with mRNA. I believe Moderna had been working on some Herpes biologic using mRNA before they became famous due to Coronavirus. I had heard of Moderna in my HSV research two years before coronavirus became a thing.

 

Would this mean that the covid vaccine would stimulate our body to "cure" the hsv virus?

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https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00272-5

partially true. Herpes is a DNA virus; if I'm right, when the latent DNA creates copies, it has first to produce the equivalent RNA.

There are studies that, instead of manipulating the DNA through CRISPR (which is permanent), manipulate the RNA that is produced by some cells. It is a transient therapy, it does not last forever and therefore it has no significant danger of causing an unintended permanent mutation. It's more of a functional cure

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friedman, yes. but it's not enough to have a vaccine made of mRNA to obtain the things suggested above.

I believe mRNA has a larger potential, as our body use it as the basis for the production of any protein. But the therapy has to be implemented with that purpose. A mRNA vaccine is just producing the viral proteins and nothing more.

in one of his videos, Friedman said that he had something in mind about using mRNA in association of the latent infection; but it seems still at concept level

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I agree, it certainly does sound very promising.  "....the mRNA vaccine was perfect in preventing genital disease (100%) and significantly reduced recurrent disease (98%)."  The mice and guinea pig trials went extremely well and now they are aiming for a phase 1 human trial in about a year from now..... I hate getting my hopes up but, this one is worth following.....

 

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On 5/2/2021 at 7:12 PM, Laguna said:

God, please let this move quickly! 

Amen to that, Laguna!  I looked into the information available regarding the research being done by Dr. Friedman at Univ. of Pennsylvania and it was enough to prompt me to donate!  :)   Fingers crossed on this one.

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5 hours ago, Ninie said:

how long would phase 1 take? and the other 2 phases?

There are actually a total of four phases.... the good news is that Phase 1 typically takes 1 year.... the bad news is that Phase 2 can go on for 2 more years and Phase 3 can take an additional 3 years.... see the attached link for a bit more detail.  If things were to go very well during early phases, sometimes the FDA approves "Fast Trak" for some drugs that speeds up the approval process (google: "Pritelivir" and FDA approval process).   https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9877

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